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  #1  
Old 09-17-2009, 08:23 AM
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I've been googling this with mixed results. It seems there hasn't been a discussion of this at TB though and I was thinking maybe a TBer could give some clearer thoughts than what I've been finding.

I know this is situational, but when there is a key change within a song, how do you know what chords will make an effective transition/springboard into the new key? What effect does the chord progression within the key have on deciding with chords to use?

E.G. We play a song at church that transitions from G to A. I tried to figure out a transition by ear but had no luck. At others' reccommendation we are using B(min I think?) to E for the springboard and it sounds good but I'd like a theory-based explanation of why.
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  #2  
Old 09-17-2009, 12:08 PM
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The strongest resolution is V7 to I, in the key of A that's an E7. What's a Bmin7 chord's function in the key of A major? It's the ii chord. So you're playing the mother of all resolving progression - ii V I in your new key.

This is pretty blunt force trauma modulation, there may be some easier ways to get there....
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  #3  
Old 09-17-2009, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua View Post
So you're playing the mother of all resolving progression - ii V I in your new key.
Ok, that makes sense. How does it fit in with the key you're currently in, instead of the key you're moving towards? Assuming the Bm was chosen since it is in both keys and would work better than an F#m?

What if you were going from the key of F# to key of A? The only thing shared there is a G#m so would you go from G#m to Em to A?

Going from key of E to key of A they share F#m7, G#m, C#m7.. I guess you would just pick whatever sounds best, I will have to look into this more when I have my guitar in front of me.

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Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua View Post
This is pretty blunt force trauma modulation, there may be some easier ways to get there....
Please share more?
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Old 09-17-2009, 12:54 PM
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Rather than going at this in a piecemeal way (and by typing to strangers on the intraweb), I would HIGHLY suggest you work with your teacher. Just like building a house you get a solid foundation built before you start putting up walls, it's not going to do you any good talking about altering harmonic function if you don't have a good handle on basic harmonic function.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:07 PM
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When I write a key change into a song, it's basically a matter of trial and error to figure out what works. A V-I or IV-I is a safe bet, but sometimes that's too safe. Sometimes I write a transition melody that brings it into the key change, but sometimes that's too over the top. Sometimes I just go right into the key change, but sometimes that's too abrupt. All of them will work in the right situation, though. Just a matter of developing taste and using your best judgment. If one transition doesn't work, try another one.
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Old 09-17-2009, 01:26 PM
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here's a quick and dirty guide:

whatever your target key is, figure out the dominant (V) chord of that key is, for example, if you were headed to F#, the dominant would be C#. From there, work backward to put another chord in front of that if necessary. In your example the following would work nicely

A - C#m7 - C#7 - F#

All I did was take C#m (which is diatonic, or native, to the key of A major), change one note (change the E to E# or F) and I've laid a nice foundation for the new key of F#.

Practically speaking, you may not have the time/beats available for all of that, so if nothing else make sure you hit the V of the new key. It may be abrupt but at the very least your new tonal center will be well established.
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  #7  
Old 09-17-2009, 02:46 PM
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First of all, make sure the modulation (changing key) cue sounds right for the song.

Most worship song modulations are 2 to 3 half steps upward. The perfect 4th or perfect 5th of the new key are pretty strong modulation cues depending upon the last chord played in the previous key.

For example - Modulating from the key of A to B(I) - try E(IV) or F#(V) depending on the last chord played.

In the "Shout to the Lord" chorus - The last chord played in the previous key of A is an E(which is the IV of the new key B), don't play the E(IV) but play an F#(V) instead. If the last chord played in the previous key of A is not a E, try either E(IV) or F#(V)

Going from G to A you can use either D(IV) or E(V) depending upon the last chord played in the previous key.

You can also use what note(chord) the guitarist, keyboardist, singers or sheet music is using as a cue into the new key.
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  #8  
Old 09-17-2009, 05:24 PM
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I remembered something from long ago and just tried it. It seems to work.
From your first key go to the viidim chord of the first key from there go to the V7 chord of the new key and from that go to the new key's tonic I and start that key from there. I just tried it and it does seem to work.

Theory behind it -- viidim is the leading tone chord so let it lead to the new dominant chord who's task in life is to get you to the new tonic.
  #9  
Old 09-17-2009, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos View Post
I remembered something from long ago and just tried it. It seems to work.
From your first key go to the viidim chord of the first key from there go to the V7 chord of the new key and from that go to the new key's tonic I and start that key from there. I just tried it and it does seem to work.

Theory behind it -- viidim is the leading tone chord so let it lead to the new dominant chord who's task in life is to get you to the new tonic.
Yes, but the viidim is the leading tone chord to the I of the original key
not the V7 of the new key..

I'd take jimmyM's advice
  #10  
Old 09-17-2009, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by brammerd View Post
Yes, but the viidim is the leading tone chord to the I of the original key
not the V7 of the new key..

I'd take jimmyM's advice
Yes I understand that, however, you can use it to get to the new key. Read this again..........

The viidim is a dominant chord just like the V chord, i.e. both are dominant - as the ii and IV are both sub dominant - and both the viidim and the V like to move to the I chord like you said, however what you do is move from the dominant viidim of one key to the dominant V of the new key and let that V (of the new key) take you to the tonic of the new key. Try it, let your ear be the judge.

Just a suggestion..................

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 09-17-2009 at 09:10 PM.
  #11  
Old 09-18-2009, 03:17 AM
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The theory you asked for can be found in:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modulate_(music)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_authentic_cadence

I'll try to add something more practical. There are many good ways to go to a new key. Important is that you deliberately choose between going for a natural flow or a suprise.

One of the major problems is: how much space do you have in terms of bars and beats, taking the tempo into account. If you move too fast, the modulation might lack natural touch.

At the end of an average song with a 16-bar chorus you usally land on beat 1 of the bar before last. Very likely the tempo forces you to modulate on a speed of two chords per bar, so in theory you have three steps available before landng on the I of the new key. In many cases you'll chose a ii (or IV) - V7 - I sequence in the new key.

This is much like what Ed Fuqua explained.

Say, you would like to go from C to E.
| C - | A9 B7 | E This is a chromatic modulation, because on the A9 chord we already have the note c# that is not in the C major scale. a softer, more natural way (for a sweet song) could therefore be to use Am or Am7 instead of A9.

In the example you even have room for an extra step, like:
| C G#dim | A9 B7 | E
It's important to make use of both scale-like voicings and notes that keep throughout different chords. In the second example, the root notes of the chord would make a nice voicing for the bass. The reason I wrote A9 instead of A7 (which is also good) is that another voice (a horn, top note on the keyboard, whatever), could play the note b all through the key change. These two voicings would give a very compulsive flow. If you want that, of course.

The extra step (G#dim in the example), should best be a chord that could occur in both old and new key. G#dim is also Abdim, Ddim, Fdim, Bdim, chords you might encounter in the key of C. Dim chords are often good candidates to be used in modulations. The same goes for augmented (+5) chords. After renaming them, they suddenly are plausible in the new key. This is called enharmonic modulation. Beside dims and +5 chords, there are more possibilities. To use those serious study of harmony is necessary, because they will only work with correct voicing.

Should you need another extra step for a really sweet key change, you might consider to not let the melody end on the old key major (or minor) chord, but to use that point to already start the modulation.

Very sophisticated is to choose a common chord that's already present in somewhere in the rest of the song.

Both sweet and surprising is if you modulate in the middle of the song, where a series of chords suddenly is made to lead somwhere else. Especially useful for ballads.

Important notice: if you take more steps for a key change, you might be tempted to follow the circle of fourths for a while, like, going from C to G:

C E7 | A7 D7 | G

The more natural solution is to mix minor and major chords:

C E7 | Am D7 | G or C Em | Am D7 | G

This story is getting much longer than I thought...

Then we have the slope method, moving to the new key in a chromatice scale of major chords (from C to Ab):
C B7 | Bb7 A7 | Ab This is ugly guitar stuff. Upward guitar slope is even more ugly...

The bass line c - b - bb -a - ab in the example is OK, but mixing the nature of the chords:

C Em | Gdim Eb7b5 | Ab

And.. there is the blunt method to change key in one go. Not always a bad surprise! Sometimes forced if you don't have room for more chords. Works for changes that are:
1. a major third up or down (good!)
2. a whole or a half step up (so and so).

A final note from the bass player's perspective. The basic bass progression during a modulation should best be confined to:
1. whole and half steps up or down
2. 4th up (or 5th down), especially the last jump right before the new key.

Disclaimer: this is all just advice, not rule. In the end, there's only your own good taste that rules.

Have fun!
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  #12  
Old 09-18-2009, 06:19 AM
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Thanks to everyone. Lots of stuff to look into and experiment with.
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Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua View Post
I would HIGHLY suggest you work with your teacher.
Note to self: MUST call about lessons. The more I play with others the more I realize I don't know how to tastefully apply the very basic theory I've learned on my own/from the internet and how I don't understand harmonic function.
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  #13  
Old 09-19-2009, 08:32 AM
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V of the new key as many have said.

More specifically my initial instinct would be to grab that Emin, set it up solidly and on the last note of the bar bump it's third up to a major and dive right into A.
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