Treble Clef Reading

[Chrispurchase]

I recently started a jazz performance degree and all the charts etc are given to me in treble clef.

I can read treble clef reasonable well as the majority of my theory is done with it, but as soon a i have a bass in my hands it's like my brain clicks over in to bass clef.

has anyone else had this problem, any tips on reading treble clef and switching between that and bass clef?

[Chris K]

Try to magine there's an extra line above the treble clef staff.

[MalcolmAmos]

Yes, is it Every or Good? lol

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Chrispurchase

I can read treble clef reasonable well as the majority of my theory is done with it, but as soon a i have a bass in my hands it's like my brain clicks over in to bass clef

Same here: I played flute for four years as a kid, and played guitar pretty extensively before I ever started playing bass, so I'm fluent reading treble clef...but as soon as I strap on a bass it's like my brain flips a switch and suddenly I can only read bass clef.

I sort of got over it when I started playing high 'cello melodies on a 6-string bass; that tessitura combined w/ the C string made everything so different from "normal" bass playing that it seemed to re-set the switch from "You're Playing A Bass" to "You're Playing Music"

but unless it's a long passage I'd probably still prefer to read bass clef w/ "8va" indicated.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by Chrispurchase

has anyone else had this problem, any tips on reading treble clef and switching between that and bass clef?

For me it's the opposite. Just learning bass, and having known the treble clef from guitar and other music studies, I never learned the bass clef. I just keep one thing in mind... it's just two notes difference. The bass clef is two notes lower than the treble clef, and vice versa.

[bassdoubler]

I think you just need to sit down and practice more stuff on bass in treble clef. When I was in school, I was playing sonatas and concerti that would jump from bass to treble to tenor and then back to treble sometimes all in one line! I used to get headaches as it literally would fry my brain while I would practice them, but eventually you just learn them. Good luck dude.

[Rigel42]

Somebody once made a recommendation that worked for me. Don’t visualize two separate staffs, instead picture both Treble and Bass on the Grand Staff separated by the C note. That note is one step below the Treble and one step above the bass and holds everything in place. I’m not sure why, but that made everything logically click into place for me.

[Chansey]

I have a question with reading treble clef on bass... do you all typically play it an octave down from what is written? I have tried to play treble clef at pitch, but typically it ends up all above the 12th fret area and occasionally out of range (for those high notes!). That seems to work well for the most part, but some of those heads or unison lines really do seem to call for the notes at pitch.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bassdoubler

I think you just need to sit down and practice more stuff on bass in treble clef.

right! everything takes practice. if you can't do something instantly, all that means is that's an area you have to work on.

if it makes you feel better, though, i've been reading treble clef charts on the fly in my gig for 11 years, and it never fails...i will forget it's treble clef at least once during a show. oh well...stuff happens

[Chrispurchase]

Thanks for all the info. I'm glad others have the same problem.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Minotauros

I just keep one thing in mind... it's just two notes difference. The bass clef is two notes lower than the treble clef, and vice versa.

I think you've got that backwards...unless your "and vice-versa" was a CYA caveat? A note name (i.e, pitch class, not absolute pitch) in the treble clef is two steps lower than equivalent line or space in the bass clef.

Originally Posted by Chansey

I have a question with reading treble clef on bass... do you all typically play it an octave down from what is written? I have tried to play treble clef at pitch, but typically it ends up all above the 12th fret area and occasionally out of range (for those high notes!). That seems to work well for the most part, but some of those heads or unison lines really do seem to call for the notes at pitch.

It depends on whether I'm reading a bass part that ventures into the treble clef -- in which case I do still adhere to the Sounds 8vb maxim of bass notation -- or if I'm just reading a lead sheet or condensed score -- in which case I just play it in whatever register makes the most sense contextually. In either case, yeah, you're gonna wind up above the 12th fret a lot. The notes are there, might as well use 'em.

[Minotauros]

Originally Posted by Hoover

I think you've got that backwards...unless your "and vice-versa" was a CYA caveat? A note name (i.e, pitch class, not absolute pitch) in the treble clef is two steps lower than equivalent line or space in the bass clef.

I was referring to written clefs. The F on a bass clef is two lines lower than it is on the treble clef, for example. All other notes on their respective lines and spaces follow suit.

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Minotauros

The F on a bass clef is two lines lower than it is on the treble clef

Gotcha. I simply misunderstood what you were saying when you wrote

Originally Posted by Minotauros

The bass clef is two notes lower than the treble clef

...I thought you were saying the pitch class of the equivalently placed note (eg, the note name for, say, the top line of the staff) was two steps lower in the bass clef than it is on the treble clef, when actually it's the other way around.

There's probably something profound about the fact that both phenomena are true, but I can't put my finger on it at the moment!

[Minotauros]

I probably should have just said it the second way the first time to avoid confusion.

Wait, wut!?

[Hoover]

Originally Posted by Minotauros

I probably should have just said it the second way the first time to avoid confusion.

Wait, wut!?

I THOUGHT I WAS WRONG, AND I WAS RIGHT:





I WAS WRONG!

[Kalango]

My first instrument was (classical) guitar, so my first clef was treble. When I started playing bass, I stop reading in treble clef. Now I am trying to play guitar again, as I am travelling a lot (day job, not touring) and I can't have anything bigger than a travel guitar with me for weeks. So a guitar is better than nothing, as I can still play a bit and it's a great tool for learning harmony with.
Now the question: Do you people who didn't learn to read in both clefs simultaneously feel that reading in a new clef will hinder your ability to read in the old one? I can read pretty well in bass clef, and I'd rather be able to read well in one clef than not so well in two. So what are your thoughts and experiences?
Piano/keyboard players can offer their perspectives too, obviously. It's just that it may be different if you read in two different clefs from day one.

Thank you for reading.

[JimmyM]

if you can keep addition and multiplication straight, you can do both clefs no problem. i learned to read treble a year before bass, and i have no trouble keeping them straight. occasionally i will forget i was given a treble clef chart, but once i realize my mistake, i'm fine.

[4Strings46]

I have been writing with Finale notation software for years and I spend alot of time writing. I will be honest and I only read bass clef but I found that writing in all clefs helps me hear and understand the pitch i am writing. I have had people ask me how i can write in a clef i cant play to? lol thats a good question for someone who does not write in standard notation. Get a notation software program and start writing. Finale is a good one also sibelius. They are a bit expensive. But worth it if you want to get your musicianship together.

[4Strings46]

Originally Posted by Chris K

Try to magine there's an extra line above the treble clef staff.

That's great advise. And exactly what my teacher told me.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by 4Strings46

I have been writing with Finale notation software for years and I spend alot of time writing. I will be honest and I only read bass clef but I found that writing in all clefs helps me hear and understand the pitch i am writing. I have had people ask me how i can write in a clef i cant play to? lol thats a good question for someone who does not write in standard notation. Get a notation software program and start writing. Finale is a good one also sibelius. They are a bit expensive. But worth it if you want to get your musicianship together.

so are you saying you write in treble clef by typing it in bass clef then transposing it over to treble in finale? that's a good solution if you don't know how to write in one clef or the other, but is that really writing it?