trouble making riffs/music

[MikeJuvi07]

Hello everyone, My name is mike shoe. I'm currently stationed in south korea being in the US army as a mechanic and when I'm not working i'm playing my bass. I've played bass for about 2 years off and on and just started up again about a week ago. The first thing I did was start learning how to slap since I don't have a pick, and I've picked it up really well so far. I've gotten slapping with my thumb and plucking pretty down so far. But I have trouble creating my own music. I play with a metronome to get my rythm which helps a little but when I hear a sound in my head that would go good with whatever i'm trying to come up with I can never find the exact note on my bass and forget real quick exactly what I was doing or what I was looking for. if that makes any sense. I wan't to learn how to read music and learn what each fret on the fretboard's musical note is I know that would help but there are really no bass instructors on my base in south korea.

Pretty much what all that just said is:
I'm having trouble writing my own music and riffs, and want some source of help or advice on anything that would help me perform better as a "composer" and a bass player.

Anyone?

thanks! =]

[Chris K]

Just to improve your hearing it is a goood idea to start playing the melodies to simple songs. We are in a disadvantage to trumpet players, violinists etc. who learn to play melodies by ear. It's good for you!

I plan to make some videos on this very subject.


However, before starting that you really should learn a consistent technique. There are many video's on the net. I would really advise you to find a theacher (maybe someone very experienced from this forum - not me) who could offer to watch video's of you playing to assess your technique, to prevent you from getting into bad playing habits.

Since you are out there to serve your nation, I believe we should help you.

[MikeJuvi07]

You've caught my attention!
How would I improve my hearing?

And what do you exactly mean when your talking about consistent technique?


I also appreciate your support, where would I find someone that would be willing to watch me play and determine my strengths and weakness's?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by MikeJuvi07

.... But I have trouble creating my own music. I play with a metronome to get my rhythm which helps a little but when I hear a sound in my head that would go good with whatever I’m trying to come up with I can never find the exact note on my bass and forget real quick exactly what I was doing or what I was looking for. If that makes any sense. I want to learn how to read music and learn what each fret on the fretboard's musical note is I know that would help but there are really no bass instructors on my base in South Korea. Pretty much what all that just said is:
I'm having trouble writing my own music and riffs, and want some source of help or advice on anything that would help me perform better as a "composer" and a bass player.

Composer is one avenue by itself and bass player is another. I suggest you be a bass player first and let that flow into composing. As far as riffs IMHO two to three basic riffs will let you play thousands of bass lines. Knowing your fretboard will help both composing and your bass playing, so ........... here is a bass fretboard chart. The note patterns are very predictable. Once you learn how to place your riff pattern the correct notes will be waiting for you within the pattern. http://www.thecipher.com/fretspell_BASSguitar.pdf

Here is the major scale pattern - 1 = the first note in the scale, 2 = the second note in the scale, etc.

|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
|---6---|-------|---7---|---1---|
|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
|-------|---1---|-------|---2---|4th string


If you place the red 1 on the 4th string 3rd fret it will automatically place the notes of the G major scale under your fingertips G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. Place the red 1 on the 4th string 5th fret and the A major scale notes are waiting for you A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A. Yep at the 8th fret and the C major scale notes are there C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. Figure out why 3rd fret gives G scale, 5th fret gives the A scale and 8th fret gives the C scales. Yes, it has to do with what note you placed the red 1 on.

How to use that. You asked about hearing the right notes. As you play the scale say the notes out loud. Sooner or later you will associate the sound with the note name. Running your scale is a good warm up exercise, but, remember running a scale, in scale order, is not music it's a scale exercise and sounds like it. Gotta do it, it's a passage thing.

OK that takes care of the melody. Now for rhythm. That involves playing the notes of the chord being used in the song. Let Goggle call up some fake chord sheet music on a favorite song. http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/ww...dColdHeart.cpm

D………………………………………........................……………. A
I try so hard my dear to show that you’re my every dream
A………………………………………….........................………. .D
But, you’re afraid each thing I do is just some evil scheme

OK now let’s do something with all that. Taking pattern riffs to the fake chord sheet music will build a bass line for us. Using our Major scale pattern again:
With the song Cold, Cold Heart our first note would be the D and our second note when the lyrics get to the word “dream” would be the A, and then back to D when the lyrics get to the word “scheme”.

Where is the D note on your fretboard? How about using 3rd string 5th fret. Where is the A note? How about just below the D on the 4th string – yep, it’s going to be easy. Where is the G note? Just above the D note. What you need is all there together waiting for you. Yep, somebody gave this a lot of thought a long time ago and made it easy for us.

Here are some easy riff patterns to get you started.

Root – 5 for each (any) chord used, or…
|-------|-------|-------|---5---|
|-------|---1---|-------|-------|


Root-3-5 or Root-3-5-3 for each (any) chord used.
|---3---|-------|-------|---5---|
|-------|---1---|-------|-------|

Root - 4 - 5 for each (any) chord. This one is great with a I IV V chord progression, i.e. C F G.
|-------|---4---|-------|---5---|
|-------|---1---|-------|-------|

Here is another pattern for the R - 4 - 5
|-------|-------|-------|-------|
|-------|---4---|-------|-------|
|-------|---1---|-------|-------|
|-------|---5---|-------|-------|

These patterns are generic and can be moved all over the fretboard. You need to memorize the notes on the 4th and 3rd string and use them to spot your patterns on the specific note you are looking for, i.e. G is 4th string 3rd fret and C is right above that. A is 4th string 5th fret and D is right above that, B is at the 7th fret and E is right above that. Once spotted the pattern takes over.

Basic Chord progressions you will run into --- check them out on your fretboard notice the pattern that will take you to them. Yes same pattern for C F G works on D G A ---
C F G
G C D
D G A
A D E
E A B
B E F#
F Bb C

Now the beat or groove you gotta hear that. Practice your patterns while listening to songs.
For more detail on bass lines - http://www.cyberfretbass.com/user-le...ndex.php?ID=41

....... where would I find someone that would be willing to watch me play and determine my strengths and weakness's?

I bet you are not the only bass player on base, ask around.


Good luck, and BTW thanks for serving.

[mambo4]

this may be to terse to be helpful, but:

put the instrument down, sing your ideas, then pick it up and figure out how to play what you just sang.

hard at first, gets easier with time.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Let Goggle call up some fake chord sheet music on a favorite song. http://www.chordie.com/chord.pere/ww...dColdHeart.cpm

D………………………………………........................……………. A
I try so hard my dear to show that you’re my every dream
A………………………………………….........................………. .D
But, you’re afraid each thing I do is just some evil scheme

OK now let’s do something with all that.

It's a long way from the first D chord to the next A chord what is the best way to fill that gap? Using the patterns I listed in the other post our choices could be:

D, D, D, D, D, etc.
D-5, D-5, D-5, D-5, etc.
D-3-5, D-3-5, D-3-5, D-3-5, etc.
D-3-5-3, D-3-5-3, D-3-5-3, D-3-5-3, etc.
D-4-5, D-4-5, D-4-5, D-4-5, D-4-5, etc.

Welcome comments from others on how best to fill in between the D and A chord.

[xzzy]

Play with more than a metronome. Get a cheap drum machine, preferably one that has a whole bunch of loops already set up for you, and jam out to them. The Zoom B2 is nice because it's a bass effects pedal, and has ~30 drum loops to experiment with.. all you need are some headphones.

Having a foundation to build on can really open up your fingers.

(this should be done in conjunction with the above advice to hear a sound in your head, then find a way to play it)

[MikeJuvi07]

That is very very great advice, so much to typing for such a small question. Thanks guys =]

I really dont understand chords at all. there are different G's and C's on the fretboard which one's do I use if I'm running a scale for warm up. and the tablature that was posted with the 1= first note in the scale and 2 = second note in the scale. I don't understand that because some breaks don't have a 1 or the next following note???

And whats things like this mean: Root - 4 - 5 for each (any) chord. This one is great with a I IV V chord progression, i.e. C F G.

[bobbth]

I hope this helps
This is how I did it, however if you dissagree simply ignor this post (and excuse my horrible spelling)

Firstly, learn, to atleast 1 octave, a scale that you like the sound of (just to start off with). I started off with minor pentatonic.

If you have a drum machine then start by playing your root note either on the beat or locked in with the drum machine, whichever feels nicer/more natural. Bare with me and do this for about one or two minutes untill you have a feel for the drum beat and no longer have to concerntrate to play in time.

Once you have this begin by slaping/popping octaves in time, this step took me about 20 minutes (thou ive always taken too long to learn). Then when you are comfortable with this add other notes of the scale inplace of the octve (it was quicker to slap the root note and pop the scale tones at first for myself).

If you nail the previous then its open playing field, do whatever you want as long as it sounds good for you (you will do alot which doesnt). Do what you please, this is where I (and i suspect most players) develope your own style. Try new drum beats, time signatures, and scales.

A small tip: just because your playing in a scale does not mean you have to stick to notes in the scale (some of my best lines are entirely chromatic).
EVERYTHING GOES!!

Thats what worked for me.
If you do decide to folow my advice and it isnt working for you disregard this method and do something me structured. This is just what worked for me.

[embellisher]

Let's tackle your questions one at a time.

• when I hear a sound in my head that would go good with whatever i'm trying to come up with I can never find the exact note on my bass and forget real quick exactly what I was doing or what I was looking for.

For this one, a good thing would be to have some kind of recorder handy, either an mp3 player that will record, or a digital dictation recorder. Sing your idea into the recorder so you won't forget it, and then work on figuring it out.

• I wan't to learn how to read music and learn what each fret on the fretboard's musical note is I know that would help but there are really no bass instructors on my base in south korea.

For this one, the web is a great resource. Google sight reading for bass. There are a ton of lessons on Youtube, and many websites where you can learn sight reading. You also need a quick reference for your notes on the fingerboard. Here is a great one. http://www.activebass.com/basics/fboard.asp
Activebass is a great site too.

As far as learning theory, there is a theory forum down in the Double Bass section of Talkbass. It is one of the best theory resources on the web.

[standupright]

what you said makes sense because you probably don't understand the constructs of music or theory. take some time to devote to learning in that area. it will help tremendously.

[MikeJuvi07]

thats awesome guys, I think I'm going to take a step back in my bass playing and try to learn some of the the things I missed in the beginning. And I am definetaly going to try to run some scales and try to figure out what chords are exactly and see what happens and also try all of these other suggestions that where mentioned and recommended.

Thank you all a lot. Been a great help! Feel free to add anything else that would be usefull if you want to =D


I'll be seing you around in the forums

[MikeJuvi07]

quote: MalcomAMOS


If you place the red 1 on the 4th string 3rd fret it will automatically place the notes of the G major scale under your fingertips G, A, B, C, D, E, F#, G. Place the red 1 on the 4th string 5th fret and the A major scale notes are waiting for you A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G, A.





--------


Isn't the major scale notes suppost to be A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A ?

its the only one thats different then the other two that u listed.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by MikeJuvi07

Isn't the A major scale notes supposed to be A, B, C#, D, E, F#, G#, A ? its the only one that's different then the other two that u listed.

You are correct. Sorry about that.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by MikeJuvi07

I really dont understand chords at all. there are different G's and C's on the fretboard which one's do I use if I'm running a scale for warm up.

Your fretboard contains at least three sets of octaves, i.e there is a lot of duplication. Right now just use the E string as a place to start your scale exercise. G @ 3rd fret, A @ 5th fret, C @ 8th fret, etc.

Going to give you a cheat sheet of the major scale and which notes are in each scale. It is the foundation for everything we do. Kinda need that to understand the rest of this theory stuff.

Major Scale Chart
C D E F G A B...............Notice the C scale has no Sharps
G A B C D E F#.............and the G scale has one, the F#
D E F# G A B C#...........and the D scale keeps the F# and
A B C# D E F# G#.........adds the C#. Then the A scale keeps
E F# G# A B C# D#.......everything and adds the G#. See how
B C# D# E F# G# A#.....it builds on it's self.
F# G# A# B C# D# E#
C# D# E# F# G# A# B#
F G A Bb C D E.............Look what happens with the flat scales
Bb C D Eb F G A...........F has one the Bb, then the Bb scale keeps
Eb F G Ab Bb C D.........it's self and adds the the Eb. Same thing
Ab Bb C Db Eb F G.......the sharp scales did...
Db Eb F Gb Ab Bb C
Gb Ab Bb Cb Db Eb F
Cb Db Eb Fb Gb Ab Bb
Memory pegs:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos is the order of the scales that have sharps in them.
Fat cats go down alleys eating birds are the order of the sharps.
Farmer brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked.
Is the memory peg for scales that have flats in them. Now to your question...

.....and the tablature that was posted with the 1= first note in the scale and 2 = second note in the scale. I don't understand that because some breaks don't have a 1 or the next following note???

Not real sure I understand....... some of the tabs I gave you are just to show how to find a Root-5 pattern. Those only show the 1 and 5 note locations. Back to that duplication thing every C note on your fretboard will have a 5 or G note on the next string three frets up --- every place you see a C note the G note will always be on the next string and three frets up.

And whats things like this mean: Root - 4 - 5 for each (any) chord. This one is great with a I IV V chord progression, i.e. C F G.

All that Root-4-5 is music theory language. We talk theory to each other using specific things like that so there is no confusion. Now what it is.... look at that cheat sheet of the major scale notes I gave you. The C scale is C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. The root is the name of the scale or the 1 note in the scale, i.e. C. The 4 tells us we are speaking of the 4th note in the scale or the F note and the 5 refers to the G note. So as not to confuse more be aware we use 1, 2, 3 to indicate we are talking about notes and I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viidim to indicate we are talking about chords. the upper case numbers indicate a major chord and the lower case numbers indicate a minor chord. There are always 3 major, 3 minor and one diminished chord made from each scale. The major chords made from the C scale would be C, F & G. The minor chords would be Dm, Em, Am and Bdim is the diminished chord. Keep that chart I gave you handy. Mine is hung on the wall where I practice. Right now remember you PLAY notes not chords. Playing chords on your bass comes later, much later. Get notes under your belt first plenty of time to worry about PLAYING Chords later. Here is a music theory dictionary http://www.music.vt.edu/musicdictionary/

We have taken you way too deep. Print all this off and study it. Keep asking questions everyone will help.
For now practice doing your R-5 riff. For a C, F and G chord progression play the C - G notes (R-5 riff) when the song is over the C chord. When the song moves to the F chord play the R-5 riff of the F C notes and when the song moves to the G chord play the R-5 riff of the G D notes. When that is easy take it to the G C D chord progression then the D G A progression. Notice those are I, IV, V progression and you are doing a R-5 riff over them. Learn how to do that R-5 riff and you can play bass to thousands of songs. Go have fun.

Good luck.

[Lexicon]

I haven't been playing that long and I do take lessons, but prior to that I found this website pretty helpful:

http://www.studybass.com/

Very nice explanations of many of the things people are talking about. I was able to get at least a cursory understanding of the basics before I ever walked into a lesson.