Tumbao practice tips?

[Funkateer]

Been working out with my new Stagnaro Latin Bass Book/CD. Good stuff! Been focusing on the first 3 studies - mostly reading the transcriptions. Improvising root/five basslines from chord symbols and maintaining tumbao is really difficult for me as my mind finds it difficult to put the root (or other first chordal tone) on beat 4 of the previous measure.

Seems to me that part of my problem is that I have tumbao 'turned around' insofar as it really isn't 2-and / 4, but 4 / 2-and from a harmonic perspective.

[mambo4]

Originally Posted by Funkateer

One thing that continues to perplex me is that a lot of time, nobody is playing clave, and its not obvious to my ear which parts of which percussion parts I should be locking with.

Therin lies the value of learning the rhythms of the conga tumbao, piano monutno, and the timbale cascara.

although the conga tumbao is usually a 1 bar pattern so it doesn't help as far as identifying the 2 vs 3 side. (I say usually cuz there is a 2 drum conga pattern that drops a bass conga hit on the 3 side IIRC)

The piano montuno and the timbale cascara are definately 2 bar deals, tho.

The Salsa Guidebook byRebeca Mauleon is an excellent intro to the ensemble parts.

[251]

You're beginning to see the your way through the musical puzzle. More ideas will come. Work it daily & give it some time 8-)

[arcellus]

Practicing tapping the clave rhythm with my foot while playing a tumbao (very slowly at first) really helped me get comfortable. Maybe give that a shot as well.

One of the most important aspects of this music (that I've found at least) is the various ways that different instruments interact rhythmically. Focus on this and things will probably get a lot clearer.

[Phil Smith]

Originally Posted by Funkateer

Been working out with my new Stagnaro Latin Bass Book/CD. Good stuff! Been focusing on the first 3 studies - mostly reading the transcriptions. Improvising root/five basslines from chord symbols and maintaining tumbao is really difficult for me as my mind finds it difficult to put the root (or other first chordal tone) on beat 4 of the previous measure.

Seems to me that part of my problem is that I have tumbao 'turned around' insofar as it really isn't 2-and / 4, but 4 / 2-and from a harmonic perspective.

Work with the simple I-IV-V-IV progression and once you've got that down without turning it around go to iim7 V7 IMaj7 and then on to other progressions like the blues.

This site has some good info:

http://www.bigsalsa.com/beatstut.html

[tinyd]

+1 to all the other suggestions regarding the clave. But the thing that really helped me to get the 2+ is that it comes right after the conga slap. A really good (and accessible) example of a straightforward syncopated tumbao is Candela on the Buena Vista album. It's mostly over two chords so it's a good tune to practise getting the rhythm locked down to.

[Carlo Tanori]

Originally Posted by Funkateer

Stagnaro book arrived on Friday. Good stuff!

+1!

This one is good too: Afro-Cuban Bass Grooves by Manny Patiño & Jorge Moreno.

Carlo

[mdiddium]

Originally Posted by Funkateer

One thing that continues to perplex me is that a lot of time, nobody is playing clave, and its not obvious to my ear which parts of which percussion parts I should be locking with.

This is something that I both love and hate at the same time! The clave is internalized so well with really great latin musicians that nobody needs to actually play that pattern, it's all implied. Frustrating from a learning standpoint, but amazing from a performance standpoint.

I've also heard stories about great latin players that don't tap 1 & 3 with their foot at all but rather tap the clave pattern. Definitely advanced but certainly something to strive for.

[drnknmstr]

You know, not that I'm anywhere near an expert on this, but what really did help me feel and internalize the rhythm more is was learning how to salsa dance. Not that one lesson did any real wonders for me either.

BUT, I felt how everything fell into place. The dancing always made these stops on 4, which coincidentally is where the bass is always landing.

I'm not the best subdivider or counter, but when you feel that pulse, especially in the kinesthetic-physical way, it I think falls into place much easier. The theory becomes much more practical.

Besides, dancing to me, helps develop anyone's sense of time and rhythm, period. It's my advice to all my students.

[Bass Boy]

Originally Posted by drnknmstr

You know, not that I'm anywhere near an expert on this, but what really did help me feel and internalize the rhythm more is was learning how to salsa dance. Not that one lesson did any real wonders for me either.

BUT, I felt how everything fell into place. The dancing always made these stops on 4, which coincidentally is where the bass is always landing.

I'm not the best subdivider or counter, but when you feel that pulse, especially in the kinesthetic-physical way, it I think falls into place much easier. The theory becomes much more practical.

Besides, dancing to me, helps develop anyone's sense of time and rhythm, period. It's my advice to all my students.

+1 (It also makes you more popular with the ladies during the set breaks!)

[roberthelpus]

+1 bazillion to listening. As a student of AfroCuban Percussion I don't know how many times I've seen folks just not getting it when all they listen to is rock etc. It's also better to listen to some older more down home stuff - Quarteto Patria for example. Cuban Son will have the clave/s being played as well. When you are listening to masters and more advanced stuff they are often breaking the rules because they know the rules in the first place. With the folkloric and Rumba that I am into Yoruba Andabo and Conjunto Clave y Guaguanco smoke, but drop it down to some older stuff or some Grupo AfroCuba de Matanzas if you are just learning.

And don't always listen to disect and study, just hang out and listen for enjoyment and you will be amazed at how much you will absorb. Dancing would be similar.

Traditionally Cubans count and write the clave (and 6/8 bell patterns) in two and not four. I do both. They also do not speak of the two side and the three side, clave = the whole phrase. From what I understand that is something that American Jazzers came up with.

When you do get a handle on it you might try listening to some AfroCuban folkloric and Rumba to hear where it all came from.

[Paquita_Bass]

Originally Posted by Funkateer

Thanks for everybody's input. I'm doin' the best this white boy can do to get behind this music. I've played trombone in the local community college Salsa bands (2) for the past 1.5 years and this year when no bass players showed up for one of the groups, I volunteered.

A kind of similar story happened to me, as I was playing alto sax for two years in latin and then salsa band in music school. Now, it is 1.5 years I am playing the bass with a non professional salsa band. My experience is that the statement "everything is in the clave" which sounds so mysterious to me some years ago is a fantastic discovery right now as I understand better how latin music is built. Please, note that understanding how it is built doesn't mean that you feel the latin music, but definitely helps.
I discovered that tumbao on the conga, cascara, contra, piano montuno, is built upon/around the clave. I think I played better on the bass, but can not yet tapp the clave with my foot while playing, but I will. One noticeable thing is that I don't tapp the pulse with my feet while playing, I am trying to hear where is the clave on the others instruments.
I also took dance lesson which definitely helps feel the music and what the public feel when they are listening and dancing.
Well, there is still a long road for me to feel salsa (not only music, but also dance, culture and spirit) but I have the impression that I am playing tumbao bass more and more as a second nature, and that is really amazing how you bring groove with that !