Tuning up to drop C?

[toshiro94]

first off, i know there are many threads similar to this (i used the search =) ) but they didn't help me.
i have a 5 string bass, and the band im going to play for tunes to drop C. would it be bad for the neck to tune UP to CGCFA?
I tuned mine like this a few hours ago, but i'm considering changing it back to BCGCF. I never use the B string, except for to bounce back my plucking fingers when playing on the E string, so its a bit hard to get used to not having that string behind my fingers; still, the strings are nice and tight when its tuned up to drop c.
what should i do?

[fender_funk_man]

well couple of schools of thought on this. I would not tune up the octave, to much tension. But as long as your working in the same octave its safe. To increase playability have your instrument set up so that it matches the different tension that your tuning puts on the neck. Might as well slap on a fresh set of strings.

[adamrobertt]

Find a band that doesn't tune to Drop C.

[Jazz Ad]

Or find people on Talkbass who aren't smartasses to give you good advice. It works too.
For this kind of tuning you'd be better with custom jauges. You fall too far from conventional tuning to use a regular set with success.

[adamrobertt]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Or find people on Talkbass who aren't smartasses to give you good advice. It works too.
For this kind of tuning you'd be better with custom jauges. You fall too far from conventional tuning to use a regular set with success.

Yeah, you're right.

OP, you should really just get some heavy "jauge" strings. They'll make the strings feel and sound a lot less floppy. There isn't a whole lot more that you can do when you're tuning down that low.

[Ben Wilkie]

Tuning up will increase the tension on the neck of your bass. This has the potential to warp the neck over time. But, dropping the other strings and not your B will create an uneven tension, which isn't healthy either.

Since you have a five string, why don't you just use the B string and do away with drop tuning altogether? The guitarists can do what they want, but you don't have to use any different tunings, and you don't need to. The notes are all there

This is something I think alot of bass players, especially beginners, don't realise - an A is an A whether you're in standard tuning, drop-D or drop-Z. Your guitarist can play a dirty great C minor chord on his drop-C BC Rich Deathmaster 2000, and you can do the same with your five string, without detuning it.

[adamrobertt]

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

Tuning up will increase the tension on the neck of your bass. This has the potential to warp the neck over time. But, dropping the other strings and not your B will create an uneven tension, which isn't healthy either.

Since you have a five string, why don't you just use the B string and do away with drop tuning altogether? The guitarists can do what they want, but you don't have to use any different tunings, and you don't need to. The notes are all there

This is something I think alot of bass players, especially beginners, don't realise - an A is an A whether you're in standard tuning, drop-D or drop-Z. Your guitarist can play a dirty great C minor chord on his drop-C BC Rich Deathmaster 2000, and you can do the same with your five string, without detuning it.

Also very true - I somehow skimmed over the fact that he's playing a 5er.

[toshiro94]

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

Tuning up will increase the tension on the neck of your bass. This has the potential to warp the neck over time. But, dropping the other strings and not your B will create an uneven tension, which isn't healthy either.

Since you have a five string, why don't you just use the B string and do away with drop tuning altogether? The guitarists can do what they want, but you don't have to use any different tunings, and you don't need to. The notes are all there

This is something I think alot of bass players, especially beginners, don't realise - an A is an A whether you're in standard tuning, drop-D or drop-Z. Your guitarist can play a dirty great C minor chord on his drop-C BC Rich Deathmaster 2000, and you can do the same with your five string, without detuning it.

I also play trumpet (and have for many years) so i realize that an A is an A, and such. (this was meant to be said in a agreeing way, and not a 'know it all' way- but, sigh, things like that don't carry very well over the internet)

so are you saying i should take the music, tune up to standard, and transpose it to be played in standard (though its supposed to be in drop c)?

[Ben Wilkie]

Originally Posted by toshiro94

I also play trumpet (and have for many years) so i realize that an A is an A, and such. (this was meant to be said in a agreeing way, and not a 'know it all' way- but, sigh, things like that don't carry very well over the internet)

so are you saying i should take the music, tune up to standard, and transpose it to be played in standard (though its supposed to be in drop c)?

No worries!

If I was in your situation, I would keep to standard tuning - I'm most comfortable with it and I think it sounds best for my bass - and adapt whatever they gave me to that tuning. So yes, I would transpose if they gave me written music. If you're used to standard tuning then I recommend you do the same. This should be no problem if you're familiar with the notes on the fingerboard

That said, someone else might have some useful advice regarding alternate tunings that would enable you to safely de-tune without wrecking your neck - thus keeping the band happy. But... as my old teacher used to say: get over it and do it the harder way - you'll become a better musician in the end.

My 0.002 cents..

[vagus]

I've played with guitarist with all kinds of crazy tunings, and never tune my 5 string ( or 6 ) any differently....

You either know where the notes on the neck are, or you don't...Like someone else said - they are all there..

And for the love of god, the B string is not a finger rest - give it some love time to time...

[toshiro94]

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

No worries!

If I was in your situation, I would keep to standard tuning - I'm most comfortable with it and I think it sounds best for my bass - and adapt whatever they gave me to that tuning. So yes, I would transpose if they gave me written music. If you're used to standard tuning then I recommend you do the same. This should be no problem if you're familiar with the notes on the fingerboard

That said, someone else might have some useful advice regarding alternate tunings that would enable you to safely de-tune without wrecking your neck - thus keeping the band happy. But... as my old teacher used to say: get over it and do it the harder way - you'll become a better musician in the end.

My 0.002 cents..

Thanks!
just to put this into perspective, i've been playing bass for around 6 months, and haven't (yet) taken lessons.
so, that being said, though i don't think it would be too hard to transpose the music (though i doubt they'll give me any; they said they wanted a "loose interpretation" of what they do. first practice is on saturday) but i do think it would be hard for me to play the transposed music.
The music they play (hardcore/metal, as you might've guessed) is most likely easiest-ly played in drop C. And since i'm not good enough (yet) to play the music in standard, should i just buy heavier gauge strings, and practice until i can?

oh and also: if i played it in standard, wouldn't the pitch be off by an octave? I don't know how much this would affect the overall sound...
thanks again!

[Ric5]

Why do people screw up their bass with drop tunings?

A 5 string bass tuned BEADG will cover any drop tuning unless you need a low B flat.

[Ben Wilkie]

Originally Posted by toshiro94

Thanks!
just to put this into perspective, i've been playing bass for around 6 months, and haven't (yet) taken lessons.
so, that being said, though i don't think it would be too hard to transpose the music (though i doubt they'll give me any; they said they wanted a "loose interpretation" of what they do. first practice is on saturday) but i do think it would be hard for me to play the transposed music.
The music they play (hardcore/metal, as you might've guessed) is most likely easiest-ly played in drop C. And since i'm not good enough (yet) to play the music in standard, should i just buy heavier gauge strings, and practice until i can?

oh and also: if i played it in standard, wouldn't the pitch be off by an octave? I don't know how much this would affect the overall sound...
thanks again!

Perhaps it will just be more fun if you just de-tune and go for it!

If you're not to going to use the B string, tune the other four as you normally would - CGCF - and then reduce the tension on the B string by tuning it down; maybe to an F (someone else might be able to think of something better). Everything will be floppy as hell I'd imagine, but who cares? It's better to be floppy than tight.

All I'm saying is that it's possible to play whatever they do without changing your tuning; you just have to use your head and knowledge of the fingerboard. Just keep it in mind, and in the future have another go at standard tuning.

But, with only six months under your belt, you should just be having fun rather than kicking your own arse trying to transpose.

PS: When you drop tune to CGCF, the lowest open C can be found at the first fret of your B string when you're in standard. So you can play the notes at the right octave in standard.

[Bass Troll]

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

Since you have a five string, why don't you just use the B string and do away with drop tuning altogether? The guitarists can do what they want, but you don't have to use any different tunings, and you don't need to. The notes are all there

This is something I think alot of bass players, especially beginners, don't realise - an A is an A whether you're in standard tuning, drop-D or drop-Z. Your guitarist can play a dirty great C minor chord on his drop-C BC Rich Deathmaster 2000, and you can do the same with your five string, without detuning it.

Although this is technically correct, it won't be very practical if the songs are constantly "bouncing" off the low C. In fact, some riffs may virtually impossible without an open C.

To the OP, I find the best way of dealing with drop C (or C#) on a 5 or 6 string is to capo the first fret. Of course, you still have the problem if they're "bouncing" off the G, but it will save you from adjusting to accommodate alternate tuning.

I use a standard Dunlop flat (classical) capo on my 6 string, and it works fine. Definetly something to consider anyway.

Originally Posted by Ric5

Why do people screw up their bass with drop tunings?

A 5 string bass tuned BEADG will cover any drop tuning unless you need a low B flat.

Think about it guys, just because standard will cover the drop tunings, it doesn't mean it's practical, or even possible.

This whole idea that having the low B means drop tunings are useless is just wrong, especially in metal/prog.

[toshiro94]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Why do people screw up their bass with drop tunings?

A 5 string bass tuned BEADG will cover any drop tuning unless you need a low B flat.

thanks, i didn't realize this haha.

Originally Posted by Ben Wilkie

Perhaps it will just be more fun if you just de-tune and go for it!

If you're not to going to use the B string, tune the other four as you normally would - CGCF - and then reduce the tension on the B string by tuning it down; maybe to an F (someone else might be able to think of something better). Everything will be floppy as hell I'd imagine, but who cares? It's better to be floppy than tight.

All I'm saying is that it's possible to play whatever they do without changing your tuning; you just have to use your head and knowledge of the fingerboard. Just keep it in mind, and in the future have another go at standard tuning.

But, with only six months under your belt, you should just be having fun rather than kicking your own arse trying to transpose.

PS: When you drop tune to CGCF, the lowest open C can be found at the first fret of your B string when you're in standard. So you can play the notes at the right octave in standard.

Thank you!
I think I will just de-tune it... for now, of course! =) I'll do it in standard in a while... i just need to keep practicing.

I should probably go retune my bass to standard... Thanks everybody, it helped a lot

[toshiro94]

Originally Posted by Bass Troll

Although this is technically correct, it won't be very practical if the songs are constantly "bouncing" off the low C. In fact, some riffs may virtually impossible without an open C.

To the OP, I find the best way of dealing with drop C (or C#) on a 5 or 6 string is to capo the first fret. Of course, you still have the problem if they're "bouncing" off the G, but it will save you from adjusting to accommodate alternate tuning.

I use a standard Dunlop flat (classical) capo on my 6 string, and it works fine. Definetly something to consider anyway.



Think about it guys, just because standard will cover the drop tunings, it doesn't mean it's practical, or even possible.

This whole idea that having the low B means drop tunings are useless is just wrong, especially in metal/prog.

I'll also take this into consideration... and its true, especially with the crazier technical death metal. though i doubt i'll be playing that. thanks =)

[Earthday]

+1 to a capo on the first fret if you need that open C. You could even get one of those one-string capos and keep the rest of the strings standard. Never tune higher than what the string is supposed to be unless the bass is made to do it. You'll warp the neck.