Turning scales into basslines.....?

[Jinro]

AKA "Nurturing creativity (or lack thereof)".

Granted, I've only been playing bass for a year, and in a church band at that, so it's all just root chords and memorizing simple basslines, but I can't, for the life of me, create anything good for fills, etc.

I don't know all scales, but I do know Major/Minor, Blues, arpeggios, and I can play the Minor Pent. all over the neck, but I still can't do squat with them. I've tried reverse-engineering basslines from styles I like, only to end up saying "how did he come up with this"?

On occasion I can create something for maybe one or two measures, but that's it. Most of the time when I try to create something on the fly it's just discombobulated noise. It seems that I can "play" music on bass, but I can't "create" music on bass. I don't have a story to tell--I don't have basslines grooving in my head, etc.

So what did all of the pro bassits here do to advance beyond the root-chord rut?

[kr0n]

Creative environment and mood help a lot. Inspiration comes from many sources.

[Elrend]

Stick to the roots and work on rhythm instead.

[aidan784]

My opinion may differ from others on this, and I forget where the quote comes from, but I'm of the opinion that the order goes 'Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate'.

Ie. A year into playing bass I would recommend you still be in the 'Imitate/ Assimilate stage'. This consists of learning basslines you like by ear and developing a vocabulary in all keys and all chord types/ progressions etc. I'm a few years ahead of you and I consider myself still in this stage.

Why not learn from the greats? Whether that be scalewise motion or chromatic notes linking chord tones.

Obviously YMMV blah etc

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by aidan784

I forget where the quote comes from, but I'm of the opinion that the order goes 'Imitate, Assimilate, Innovate'.

+1 to your entire post. Transcribe great basslines and in every chord figure out why the bassist chose those notes, are they chord tones, scale notes, passing notes, etc, and learn where they put those notes, on downbeats, on beat 1, 2, 3 or 4, on upbeats, etc.

As you progress take some instrumental songs you like, turn down the bass and try improvising over the chords, force yourself to play it differently every time you play it, different chord tones, inversions, octaves, whatever.

But I do also agree that while you work on this during your practicing, you should just focus on the rhythm during your performances.

And Aidan, I *think* the quote you're referring to, or at least the one I know goes, "imitation, internalization, innovation"... But it could just be another version of basically the same thing. I think I learnt that version from Hal Galper (?).

[MalcolmAmos]

Church band. You and the drums are the rhythm section. The beat is the main thing. If you are maintaining the beat any note in the key is going to work. The ones below work best......

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Roots are fine. When you want a little more add the 5.
R-5-R-5 any combination of those two notes. Next add the 3.
R-3-5-3 or any combination of those three notes. Remember a minor chord will be using the b3. When that gets comfortable - bring in the octave 8.
R-3-5-8 or any combination of those notes. Next are the 7's.
b7 goes with major dominant seventh chords or minor seventh chords. If you have one of those in the song help yourself to some b7's. If you have a maj7 chord then the 7 is a natural 7.

Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 and 7 will play a lot of bass. The 6 is neutral and goes well with a major chord, aka R-3-5-6. The 2 and 4 work best as passing notes in the bass line. Try them out and see what you think.

More than enough to provide what you need for the rhythm section of a church band.

Rhythm - Sing the song under your breath and sound one note per lyric word. Je-sus and Ma-ry are two sillable words so they get two notes. Singing with the vocalists will help with your groove.

I bet the rhythm guitar will have fake chord sheet music on what you'all will be playing. Follow the chords. Roots on 1. Need more add the 5. Still need more help yourself to what is listed above.

[AMp'D.2play]

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

Transcribe great basslines and in every chord figure out why the bassist chose those notes, are they chord tones, scale notes, passing notes, etc, and learn where they put those notes, on downbeats, on beat 1, 2, 3 or 4, on upbeats, etc.

About a year or so ago, someone posted a full transcription of Jamerson (I forget the tune). I broke it down note-by-note in each measure, & I was amazed at how many roots & 5ths there were. Yeah, there were chromatics/passing notes as well as 3rds and b7ths, etc., but by and large, a ton of Rs (incl octaves) & 5s.

I don't do it nearly often enough, but for some practice sessions, I need to put down the bass and only use a pencil & paper.

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by AMp'D.2play

About a year or so ago, someone posted a full transcription of Jamerson (I forget the tune). I broke it down note-by-note in each measure, & I was amazed at how many roots & 5ths there were. Yeah, there were chromatics/passing notes as well as 3rds and b7ths, etc., but by and large, a ton of Rs (incl octaves) & 5s..

+1 Great point.
Get your hymnal, find a song that has the guitar chords shown - now look at the bottom note in the bass clef. Yep, roots and fives.

[wrench45us]

I had time this weekend to read, with atypical focus, Ed Friedland's 'Building Walking Bass Lines' and I think the idea is starting to sink in. It is mostly about roots and 5ths and there are a variety of methods (chromatic, dominant, scalar, arp) to move between root and 5th within a bar (or two) AND transition to the next bar's chord root (mostly)).

But it's all built on that root 5 foundation.
One of the exercises suggested is analyzing the examples provided as to which connective method is used and that seems to be very useful to drive the concept home.

[turbo chicken]

Here is how I do my fills most of the time but I'm a very Rhythmic player I stick to major and minor triads. Sometimes once in a great while if the drummer gets all fancy pants on my ill throw in a 3rd. I tend to keep stuff super simple note wise but kick it up a notch on the rhythm part.

Root .... 5th 5th 5th 5th5th ... Octave of Root

[tjh]

also, you can greatly enhance a bass line utilizing the same notes up and down the neck in a variety of positions, incorporating slides and dead notes, etc ... what helped me a lot when I was at the stage of the OP was to try doing rythmic roots, 5th's and octaves in a variety of positions once I learned the chord changes and layout of a song ... then try the same thing again, using no open strings, or more muted notes, etc .. a LOT of very tasteful variety can be added, without even changing or playing more than a couple notes ... JMHO

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Church band. You and the drums are the rhythm section. The beat is the main thing. If you are maintaining the beat any note in the key is going to work. The ones below work best......

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

Roots are fine. When you want a little more add the 5.
R-5-R-5 any combination of those two notes. Next add the 3.
R-3-5-3 or any combination of those three notes. Remember a minor chord will be using the b3. When that gets comfortable - bring in the octave 8.
R-3-5-8 or any combination of those notes. Next are the 7's.
b7 goes with major dominant seventh chords or minor seventh chords. If you have one of those in the song help yourself to some b7's. If you have a maj7 chord then the 7 is a natural 7.

Roots, fives, eights and the correct 3 and 7 will play a lot of bass. The 6 is neutral and goes well with a major chord, aka R-3-5-6. The 2 and 4 work best as passing notes in the bass line. Try them out and see what you think.

More than enough to provide what you need for the rhythm section of a church band.

Rhythm - Sing the song under your breath and sound one note per lyric word. Je-sus and Ma-ry are two sillable words so they get two notes. Singing with the vocalists will help with your groove.

I bet the rhythm guitar will have fake chord sheet music on what you'all will be playing. Follow the chords.

Wow! You outlined my basic and whole approach to bass playing right here. No matter where I go on the fretboard I can use this and always come up with a solid bassline with a drummer. I need to know my major/minors and when time alows add a fill if needed.

[chaosMK]

I wouldnt stress too much about it. One year is not too far into it and things take time, just learn and practice as much as you can.

If you like scales, find crazy alternate ways to play them and/or get into modes.

Creativity aside, there isn't anything wrong with doing simple stuff if you do it well.

[bassybill]

Creating great lines from scales? Try leaving some of the notes out. Seriously. And remember that the bass is part of the RHYTHM section.

[Jinro]

Wow, lots of great answers.

Ie. A year into playing bass I would recommend you still be in the 'Imitate/ Assimilate stage'. This consists of learning basslines you like by ear and developing a vocabulary in all keys and all chord types/ progressions etc. I'm a few years ahead of you and I consider myself still in this stage.

My ear is still......well not that good. I can only play something by ear if it's playing long enough for me to match it on my bass, so faster stuff like fills I can't really catch.

MalcomAmos's reply has a lot of good info I'll look into. I've managed to get 5ths and octaves to work well, but I haven't figured out how/where to use the other intervals.

Creating great lines from scales? Try leaving some of the notes out. Seriously. And remember that the bass is part of the RHYTHM section.

I understand the role of the bass in terms of rythmic support, however the bass style I like is prevalent in Japanese rock, and, if anything, could probably be considered melodic. It won't always work in church stuff (although I did, by some miracle, create a sliver of something similar that did work in one of our church songs), but I don't want to be stuck playing the same genre forever

Speaking of that fluke line I made up, I might as well post it for comments/ideas:

The chord progression (just this part) is actually C#m A E B, but I mistook it for C#m B E B.....it still works though (song is in E)

G|
D| ---------------6/-9-9-7-9-7-6-0-4-2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2
A| 4-4-4-4-4-4-7-------------------------------------2-2-2-2-2-2-2-2
D|

Kinda simple, but whatever.

Is there anywhere I can get free drum tracks to practice too? Metronome is a bit monotonous and doesn't have patterns for me to follow.

[MalcolmAmos]

Google can find most anything. Backing tracks are all over the Internet. Plus I don't have a problem playing with a video that has a bass playing along also.........

Google ----- Backing track, "name of the song"

See what comes up.

[jumbodbassman]

Jessica is a great example...

[Jinro]

I'm not necessarily looking for a backing track to a specific song (I don't even know what song to look for). I'm looking for various drum patterns in a loop. I've searched Google and have yet to find any for free.

[carlthegroover]

Originally Posted by Jinro

I'm not necessarily looking for a backing track to a specific song (I don't even know what song to look for). I'm looking for various drum patterns in a loop. I've searched Google and have yet to find any for free.

I'm in a similar musical level to you (about one year playing only bass), and I find it useful to get some drum tabs from the internet and then transcribe them on Guitar Pro or Tux Guitar (the latter is free). You can get some simple examples of rock beats, blues beats, shuffle beats, jazz beats, funk beats, you name it.

It's not that hard and you learn pretty quick what's the number code for kick, snare, toms, hi hat, etc. (f.i. in Tux Guitar one of the codes for the bass drum is 36... as if it were the "36th fret" on a guitar, and it works on any "string").

Good thing about this, I find, is that you can work hands-on on some theoretical drum patterns and learn in the process. I think it's good to lay down the rhythm and lock the groove better with the drummer.

As for fills, I heard someone saying once: "if you don't know what to do during a fill, play minor pentatonics in a groovy fashion". Others say that arpeggios work just as good (i.e. roots, 3rds, 5ths, 7ths, octaves). The key is to play them with "groove".

[Jinro]

I'll look at plugging drum tabs in Guitar Pro. I have a band score with 29-some-odd songs from one of my favorite bands, but the drum notation in the book doesn't match the notation on Guitar Pro, so I gave up trying to plug those in when I tried.

I have a question regarding arpeggios......what's the difference between arpeggios, chord tones, and triads? They all seem the same to me....