Undeniable rules of rhythm for bass??

joegrant413 · #1 01-06-2010, 10:44 AM

Undeniable rules of rhythm for bass...

Are there any... esp. for bass in contemporary worship?

I've been playing bass on worship for a few months, and have a lot of years prior to that as an amateur guitar playing.

I know that in music, as with most things, all rules need to be broken or ignored at some point. But still it's helpful -- esp to someone starting out new -- to hear the usual tried-and-true rules.

Here's my "straw man" attempt at some rules:

1) Sometimes just don't play

Assuming you *are* playing...

2) Play the 1st beat, and play it spot on

3) With the 1st beat, generally play the chord root

4) After the 1st beat, the 3rd beat in 4/4 time is the most likely one you should hit.

4) Syncopation is OK, but see rules 1 and 2

5) In general, the drummer owns beats 2 and 4. It's expected for bass to play quarters a lot, but emphasize 1 and 3, not 2 and 4.

6) Above all, listen to the other musicians, and feel what is right for the song.

7) With bass, "less is more" is very true.

Again, this is a straw man, please confirm, deny, or change as needed!

Cheers,
-- Joe

joegrant413 · #2 01-06-2010, 03:59 PM

one bump

ReBass · #3 01-06-2010, 04:04 PM

The only one rule that I can think of that holds true in every situation is: always know where ONE is.

The rest of them completely depend on the song. What works for one song may very well not work for another.

joegrant413 · #4 01-06-2010, 04:46 PM

Thanks for the response about ONE.

So, besides always knowing and feeling where the first beat is.... do you believe that you always play on the 1st beat? (assuming you play that measure at all)

Cheers,
-- Joe

rydor · #5 01-06-2010, 04:54 PM

When I first started playing on worship teams, the worship pastor shared this bit of advice that he heard from Victor Wooten. I don't remember the exact words but I'll paraphrase it:

"Remember, you have TWO ears. One of them is for listening to yourself. The other is for listening to the rest of the band. If you're wondering what to play, just stop and listen. The song will tell you what you need to know."

shadowmac · #6 01-06-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joegrant413

Thanks for the response about ONE.

So, besides always knowing and feeling where the first beat is.... do you believe that you always play on the 1st beat? (assuming you play that measure at all)

Cheers,
-- Joe

Never "never" - Never "always". Much depends on your drummer and if he is a straight 2-4 guy, and even if he is, it doesn't mean that you "always" need to be counter to him. Further, all things in moderation - mix up your groove to maintain sanity. The HEDDA guys often use this line as a joke when the timing of something is tricky, but I think it truly applies here.

Dude, it's a feel thing.

Mac - HEDDA

joegrant413 · #7 01-06-2010, 05:06 PM

Hmmmm... it almost sounds as if learning not to ask this question is the undeniable rule

I mean that in a good way. No rules, right? All feel?

Cheers,
-- Joe

TrevorOfDoom · #8 01-06-2010, 05:09 PM

the quickest way to get a groove going is to lock in with the kick drum. this should be your basic mode. everything else is built on this.

JimmyM · #9 01-06-2010, 10:25 PM

there aren't any hard fast rules. for example, latin music has a lot of bass parts that never hit on the 1. and there's times you can plow through the drummer and make it sound great.

Sideshow Aj · #10 01-06-2010, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadowmac

Never "never" - Never "always".

Dude, it's a feel thing.

Mac - HEDDA

+10000

somegeezer · #11 01-06-2010, 10:47 PM

Depends what style. Just play what feels and sounds right. Try not to let all that theory get to your head. Sometimes you have to break the rules. Major and Minor aren't the only scales you can play!

tekkentool · #12 01-06-2010, 11:38 PM

agree'd, if you can't feel your way through maybe you aren't meant to play bass.

MarkTAW · #13 01-07-2010, 12:36 AM

The One - usually longer than the other beats, usually the root.

The Three - usually followed by a "three and" beat (aka shorter than the other beats)

1 - kick
&
2 - snare
&
3 - kick
& - kick
4 - snare
&

1 & 3 are the strong beats - play them, unless your drummer delays the 3 to the & beat, then follow him there.

2 & 4 are the weak beats - the guitar may hit these, you can play the or not.

The & beats are all off beats & optional.

Hoover · #14 01-07-2010, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReBass

always know where ONE is.

...which is not the same thing as "always play on the ONE."

I agree it's invaluable to know where one is. Whether or not you chose to play on the one is contextually determined.

The only "undeniable" rule I have is Always Show Up On Time.

ReBass · #15 01-07-2010, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

...which is not the same thing as "always play on the ONE."

I agree it's invaluable to know where one is. Whether or not you chose to play on the one is contextually determined.

The only "undeniable" rule I have is Always Show Up On Time.

Yes, this is what I meant. Knowing where one is and playing on the one are two different things. Again, whether you play on the one depends on the song, the context, etc.

BluesWalker · #16 01-07-2010, 07:14 AM

Throw away your rules. Communicate with the drummer and play what you feel, not what a set of rules says you should be playing. Be creative, be an individual while serving the music. If all bass players played from the same set of rules, music would become pretty boring and we would never have any innovators.

joegrant413 · #17 01-07-2010, 08:40 AM

Cool, thanks for all the replies so far.

FYI, the things that have helped a lot so far include...

1) A very encouraging drummer

2) Using a DVD and workbook called Bass Primer. Also watching a DVD by Norm Stockton

3) Using a metronome

4) Recording myself playing along to the CD of the worship tunes. I almost always hear things about my playing that are surprisingly good or bad, and have a chance to adjust. This last one surprised me and would been a help even before I played bass.

Cheers,
-- Joe

JimmyM · #18 01-07-2010, 08:50 AM

#4 is the absolute best thing you can do to monitor yourself and your progress. the tape don't lie.

#19 01-11-2010, 03:51 AM

There are no rules but there are many examples you can learn which will help to suggest different possibilities. If you learn these examples then you have them locked away in your musical memory, and it will give you a sense of intuition as to how to approach a groove and construct something that fits.

Some ideas and generalities

- from funk, the strong one, cyclic groove ending on a four. Accenting sixteenths just before or after beats is common.

From jazz - walking bass, quarter notes following a chord sequence using a combination of scalar, arpeggiated, and chromatic movement.

Reggae - elegant, powerful lines which often leave out key beats such as the 1, sometimes working with a strong sense of counterpoint with the drums, length of spaces is hugely important.

Punk - aggressive, middy tone, following chord sequence using a combination of root notes and strong melody that is in the musical foreground rather than providing counterpoint.

African (many styles here) - often ternary form, spaces appear regularly on main beats and are used as a kind of groove pressure drop to create flow. Mostly simple harmony, with little chromaticism but large variations in rhythm and range and often involving use of thumb and two fingers. Highly syncopated.

I would recommend getting the bass bible by Paul Westwood as there are tonnes of examples that can build up your vocabulary pretty quickly.