Unusual Chord?

[VincentSalizeri]

While generally noodling around on a friend's guitar, I accidentally stumbled upon a rather awkward, yet somehow still warm, chord. It was D, A, and E an octave up. Now, I know that's two fifths, and it's also a fifth with a second plus an octave. Beyond that, I have no idea what it's called and I haven't really seen it get much use. Does anybody out there have any idea what it is?

[OmnitzGarima]

Originally Posted by VincentSalizeri

While generally noodling around on a friend's guitar, I accidentally stumbled upon a rather awkward, yet somehow still warm, chord. It was D, A, and E an octave up. Now, I know that's two fifths, and it's also a fifth with a second plus an octave. Beyond that, I have no idea what it's called and I haven't really seen it get much use. Does anybody out there have any idea what it is?

The problem with questions like this is that they're not in any kind of context. Those three notes can be interpreted in a number of ways, depending on the key you're in, the melody notes, and the surrounding chords. I'm by no means an expert, and I could probably give you three chord names. But, I'm not sure that those names would be of much use.

[VincentSalizeri]

Well, the specific notes don't really matter, that was just an example. It still has a similar feel wherever I put it. To clarify, the chord is root, a fifth up, and a second raised an octave.

[Febs]

Depending on how the chord is functioning, it could be a Dsus2 or Asus4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sus2.

[dtiii]

Quartal and quintal harmony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's as good an explanation as any.

d

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by dtiii

Quartal and quintal harmony - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's as good an explanation as any.

d

Exactly.

Or... call this D, A, E - three note chord: Dadd9 (no 3rd).

[mikkejohansson]

add9no3

[mikkejohansson]

Originally Posted by mikkejohansson

add9no3

One second too late!!

[JTE]

D, A, and E could be parts of a lot of different chords (that's why OmnitzGarima talked about context). It's not so much that it D, A, and E, but that those intervals imply different chords depending on what's going on with the melody, what chord comes before them, what chord comes after them, and what other notes anyone else in the band might be playing.

Could be:
D9 (D F# A C E) with the 3rd and b7 omitted or played by someone else (including the singers); and the lack of a third would open it up to being a minor 9 as well... this is quite a stretch with so many notes left out, but it's an example of how we have to look at the context of the whole ensemble not just three notes strummed together in isolation.

Asus4 (ADE) with the 4 in the bass- a sus4 means the third (C# in this case) is replaced by the 4th, but putting that voice in the bass is unusual- but legitimate. Sus4 is the sound of "Pinball Wizard" and the intro to Stephen Stills' "Carry On" and the favorite of a million folk guitarists.

Dsus2 (DEA) because a sus2 replaces the third (C#) with the 2 (E natural).


John

[VincentSalizeri]

Thank you all for the answers so far, it does look like a sus2 chord, or at least some inversion of one. Though the Quartal and Quintal harmony explains it pretty weel, and it also explains why I like using chords made of stacked fourths too.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by VincentSalizeri

... so far, it does look like a sus2 chord, or at least some inversion of one.

No.

The so-called sus2 would be spelled D, E, A. This sonority relies on the Major 2nd interval between the D & E and has a "tight, cluster sound".

You spelled it "D, A, and E an octave up". It's an "add 9 (no 3rd). This sonority relies on the stacked Perfect Fifths and has an "open sound".

Andy Summers made a career using variations of this sound.

[VincentSalizeri]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

No.

The so-called sus2 would be spelled D, E, A. This sonority relies on the Major 2nd interval between the D & E and has a "tight, cluster sound".

You spelled it "D, A, and E an octave up". It's an "add 9 (no 3rd). This sonority relies on the stacked Perfect Fifths and has an "open sound".

Andy Summers made a career using variations of this sound.

Ah, missed that earlier post. That's a more specific description. Plus, I suppose an inversion wouldn't raise the note in the center alone.

[JTE]

"Inversion" merely tells you which note is in the bass and is not the same as "voicing". For example, a C major chord is C, E, and G. Any combination in any order. So three typical guitar voicings (all bass to treble) are:

Open C: C E G C E
Barre with root on 5th string: C G C E G
Barre with root on 6th string: C G C E G C

All are in root position, but different voicings. However, if you grab the low G on the sixth string while playing the barre with the root on the fifth string, you are now playing a second inversion C because the fifth is in the bass.

I would disagree with Stick_Player's assesment. The "add 9" as I learned clearly indicates that the 9 is there along with the 3rd, while the sus2 merely means that the thrid has been replaced by the 2. So, DEA in any order is a Dsus2, while a Dadd9 means you need to have D, F#, A, and E (without a 7th, because the 7th makes it a simple 9th chord).

John

[MonetBass]

Throw a B in a fifth above the E and you have a cool quintal chord. It's easier on the piano, obviously.

Don't over-analyze it, though. In a 20th century music class, we attempted to analyze Wagner's "Tristan and Isolde". It sounded cool, but never really 'resolved' so to speak (symbolism - duh), so it gave us all headaches. Sometimes it's better to enjoy the sound instead of trying to put a label on it.

[Gaius46]

Originally Posted by JTE

"Inversion" merely tells you which note is in the bass and is not the same as "voicing". For example, a C major chord is C, E, and G. Any combination in any order. So three typical guitar voicings (all bass to treble) are:

Open C: C E G C E
Barre with root on 5th string: C G C E G
Barre with root on 6th string: C G C E G C

All are in root position, but different voicings. However, if you grab the low G on the sixth string while playing the barre with the root on the fifth string, you are now playing a second inversion C because the fifth is in the bass.

I would disagree with Stick_Player's assesment. The "add 9" as I learned clearly indicates that the 9 is there along with the 3rd, while the sus2 merely means that the thrid has been replaced by the 2. So, DEA in any order is a Dsus2, while a Dadd9 means you need to have D, F#, A, and E (without a 7th, because the 7th makes it a simple 9th chord).

John

This is the way I understand it too. "add9" means the 9th -
E an octave up - is added to the triad.

[Richard Lindsey]

Originally Posted by JTE

"Inversion" merely tells you which note is in the bass and is not the same as "voicing". For example, a C major chord is C, E, and G. Any combination in any order. So three typical guitar voicings (all bass to treble) are:

Open C: C E G C E
Barre with root on 5th string: C G C E G
Barre with root on 6th string: C G C E G C

All are in root position, but different voicings. However, if you grab the low G on the sixth string while playing the barre with the root on the fifth string, you are now playing a second inversion C because the fifth is in the bass.

I would disagree with Stick_Player's assesment. The "add 9" as I learned clearly indicates that the 9 is there along with the 3rd, while the sus2 merely means that the thrid has been replaced by the 2. So, DEA in any order is a Dsus2, while a Dadd9 means you need to have D, F#, A, and E (without a 7th, because the 7th makes it a simple 9th chord).

John

^^ This.

People get too hung up on the order notes come in when you spell out chords. Chord names, by their nature, do not specify voicings. That's a task for which they are not suited. At most, they specify inversions, which as JTE quite correctly points out are not the same thing. If you want specific voicings, you generally have to write or (God forbid) tab them out.

Since chord names don't specify voicing, to insist on differentiating between Dsus2 and Dadd9(no3) implies insisting that they have distinct harmonic values or functions. But they don't, really. I would suggest that to worry about differences that have no significance is probably not worth one's trouble. I'm aware that some people believe in this difference, but I've never thought that it stands up to scrutiny, nor have I ever seen it have any practical value in playing.

As for that open/closed distinction Stick_Player proposed, it's kind of illusory once you get into the realities of how chordal instruments and groups of instruments actually play chords. Take that D E A and drop the D two octaves. Hey presto, all of a sudden the voicing is no longer tight or close, but it's still the same chord. So this suggested distinction evaporates.

[BinkyBassist]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

Andy Summers made a career using variations of this sound.

LOL'd!
True, the chord progression of the opening bars of "Message in a Bottle" uses these chords.

[Stick_Player]

D - D, F#, A

Dadd2 - D, E, F#, A

Dsus2 - D, E, A

D7 - D, F#, A, C

D9 - D, F#, A, C, E

Dadd9 - D, F#, A, E

Dadd9(no3rd) - D, A, E >>> this is the OP's chord.

[JTE]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

D - D, F#, A

Dadd2 - D, E, F#, A

Dsus2 - D, E, A

D7 - D, F#, A, C

D9 - D, F#, A, C, E

Dadd9 - D, F#, A, E

Dadd9(no3rd) - D, A, E >>> this is the OP's chord.

By this logic you're saying it's not a D7 unless it's voiced D F# A C. That's just wrong.

John

[Febs]

Originally Posted by Stick_Player

D - D, F#, A

Dadd2 - D, E, F#, A

Dsus2 - D, E, A

D7 - D, F#, A, C

D9 - D, F#, A, C, E

Dadd9 - D, F#, A, E

Dadd9(no3rd) - D, A, E >>> this is the OP's chord.

So would you call this chord a D9 or a D7add2?

D E F# A C