Upright/BG players!

RyRob813 · #1 08-06-2009, 01:49 PM

I know this is better suited for the upright forums, but I didn't really get much response there on this subject...

I'm primarily a bass guitarist, but I played upright in my high school orchestra, and am still required to play a little upright for college.

I would like to become a decent upright player, or at least good enough to scrape by in some jazz gigs.

My first two semesters in college focused on the framework of bass playing: two octave scales and modes, triads, seventh chord arrpegios, arrpegio inversions...so on.

The focus is now on walking and improvisation. My thought is that while I'm learning this more advanced stuff on the instrument I'm comfortable with, I can simultaneously go through my first two semesters in college on the upright, so that by the time I have that mastered, I can work on actually walking and soloing, without having to try and find my way around the fingerboard.

So like a plan?

Thanks!

dougjwray · #2 08-06-2009, 02:37 PM

Well, it sounds good as long as you realize that really thorough study of the upright will require learning to bow (an art in itself). And the fingerings are different (unless you use the Simandl method on electric). And the scale length is different.
But you're probably aware of all that already.

RyRob813 · #3 08-06-2009, 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

Well, it sounds good as long as you realize that really thorough study of the upright will require learning to bow (an art in itself). And the fingerings are different (unless you use the Simandl method on electric). And the scale length is different.
But you're probably aware of all that already.

Yep...that much I got covered

I guess what I meant moreso was that I want to do things like play all my major modes through the circle of fourths, that when I get to sticky keys like Ab I'm not tripping up thinking where to grab notes.

Thanks for the input!

fdeck · #4 08-06-2009, 08:37 PM

It's hard to be an occasional upright player, because of the physical stamina that you need to build up. And this is easier to do when your body is younger. Those hormones that keep getting you in trouble also help you build strength. Over on the upright forum, you would be encouraged to focus on the upright.

Bowing is not vital if you are planning on sticking with jazz, but what the heck, it's a blast. I now play about 1/2 of my jazz solos on upright, using the bow, and it's finding its way into some of my bass lines as well.

Otherwise, your plan seems decent. Make sure a teacher guides you through the basics of technique so you don't injure yourself.

dougjwray · #5 08-07-2009, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

It's hard to be an occasional upright player, because of the physical stamina that you need to build up. And this is easier to do when your body is younger. Those hormones that keep getting you in trouble also help you build strength. Over on the upright forum, you would be encouraged to focus on the upright.

Bowing is not vital if you are planning on sticking with jazz, but what the heck, it's a blast. I now play about 1/2 of my jazz solos on upright, using the bow, and it's finding its way into some of my bass lines as well.

Otherwise, your plan seems decent. Make sure a teacher guides you through the basics of technique so you don't injure yourself.

I agree with all of that, except that you need to keep the electric up, too... I've seen upright bassists who have no touch on the electric, because they maul it with all of that strength. Also, I think that at least practicing with a bow is vital, because it really helps you hear the pitches clearly and thus improves your intonation.

fdeck · #6 08-07-2009, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dougjwray

I agree with all of that, except that you need to keep the electric up, too... I've seen upright bassists who have no touch on the electric, because they maul it with all of that strength. Also, I think that at least practicing with a bow is vital, because it really helps you hear the pitches clearly and thus improves your intonation.

I agree with that, and admit to the habit if digging in too hard on electric when I have not picked it up in a while. Good advice, and I also agree with what you say about the bow.

earthlypunk · #7 08-07-2009, 11:00 PM

I agree with most of the other statements that I've read. The upright is a whole 'nother instrument. Sure, it has the same notes and basic concept behind how it's played is the same, but that's about where the similarities end. I love them both, but they are quite different.

I have found that I tend to get tired out really quickly on upright unless I play at least 3-5 times a week for about 30 minutes to an hour per session and I have found that I start over playing and searching for notes on electric if I don't play it for at least 30 minutes twice a week.

Also, once you start playing upright, you'll probably want to do at least a little work with the bow. It's just too irresistable!

Pcocobass · #8 08-07-2009, 11:01 PM

Hey man,

I think the most important thing for you to do is really learn the fundamentals of the upright. Make sure you do learn some bow/classical technique as this will greatly improve your stamina in the left hand and help with intonation. With the bow, you can hear right away if you are playing out of tune. Sketchy intonation is a bit easier to get away with when you pizz.

If you really know your positions, scales and such, transferring the theoretical data from electric will be a lot easier. For instance, if you really know the key of Ab (which most tend to play a lot different on upright versus electric), then you can spend your time finding the best way to play through those modes on the upright. But if you have poor intonation and hand position, everything else you do will be affected.

I think of it like building a house. The foundation is the most important thing, and classical technique provides this. I also came from similar circumstances, and I was a good electric player before ever touching the upright bass. This approach worked well for me.

Also, once you know the fingerboard of the upright well, you'll begin to see the similarities between the two.

I would disagree with the poster who doesn't think you need to keep the electric playing up. Maybe this is true for dexterity, but I play the electric much differently than the upright when it comes to the way I approach it, scale and chord patterns I use, fingerings and open strings. As similar as they are there are some major differences that require a lot of attention.

Hope this helps and good luck.

PC

RyRob813 · #9 08-08-2009, 07:54 AM

Hey guys thanks for the input, you all basically solidified what I was already thinking, which is great!

Yes, I actually played in my high school orchestra for four years, so I dare say I have a very nice french bow technique

Bass guitar is my major in college, and also my first, and greatest love, so it will always stay my focus. We're required to take at least two semesters of a private upright lesson at McNally Smith, and I've already taken one. I was lucky enough as a kid to have had several teachers that emphasized proper technique.

Thanks again!

Rudreax · #10 08-08-2009, 09:28 AM

What college are you attending? I didn't know there are schools here in the US that allowed you to major in electric bass.

Michael Case · #11 08-08-2009, 10:15 AM

It's difficult to manage playing both instruments. I try to balance my practice time between the two. I have been gigging mostly on BG lately and trying to spend more practice time on double bass. It works, but isn't easy. The double bass can get frustrating especially when you're not gigging on it often I find myself fighting the "what's the point" feeling whenever I pick it up.

Michael Case · #12 08-08-2009, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rudreax

What college are you attending? I didn't know there are schools here in the US that allowed you to major in electric bass.

Manhattan School of Music, City College do have electric bass. City College I know holds electric players to a slightly higher standard when auditioning.

EADG mx · #13 08-08-2009, 10:25 AM

Berklee also allows electric bass majors.

fdeck · #14 08-08-2009, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Case

It's difficult to manage playing both instruments. I try to balance my practice time between the two. I have been gigging mostly on BG lately and trying to spend more practice time on double bass. It works, but isn't easy. The double bass can get frustrating especially when you're not gigging on it often I find myself fighting the "what's the point" feeling whenever I pick it up.

Admittedly, I have gone in the opposite direction, and electric is now definitely my secondary instrument. Almost all of my calls are for upright.

Michael Case · #15 08-08-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fdeck

Admittedly, I have gone in the opposite direction, and electric is now definitely my secondary instrument. Almost all of my calls are for upright.

It's tough, I started getting a lot more electric calls my last year in NYC, then when I moved it just seemed like that momentum just kept going. Of course I pursued more electric opportunities since I felt pretty out of shape on the DB.

I'm trying to get my DB chops back, but it's hard.