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11-01-2006, 11:30 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago | | | Use of the diminished chord?
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This is really a theory/songwriting question, this seemed like the best forum to post.
I know that in major keys, the "seventh" chord is diminished. It seems like an awkward chord to me. Is it used often in pop music chord progressions? How is it used? Should the flatted fifth be highlighted my bassline? |
11-01-2006, 11:51 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Toronto, ON | | | in Major keys, the seventh chord is -7b5, or half diminished, it has a diminished triad with a minor 7th, a fully diminished chord is made purely of stacked minor thirds so it would have a bb7. Those are generally used in much different situations than a VII-7b5 chord, More often as a chromatic passing chord. |
11-01-2006, 07:38 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Sarnia, Ontario, Canada | | | It fits walking b/w the IV and V when they are both dom7's, such as in a blues/jazz context
sean |
11-02-2006, 06:07 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia | | | the half diminished chord is meant to portray tension. it isn't used for long periods of time, but as has already been mentioned it tends to be used as a passing chromatic chord. |
11-02-2006, 06:13 AM
|  | Yeah, I've got the moves like Jagger. | | Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: G.R. MI | | | They work well for transitions, but no, they aren't used frequently in pop music. |
11-02-2006, 06:19 AM
|  | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | | But they do crop up quite frequently in Jazz and Brazilian "Bossa Nova"....
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
11-02-2006, 07:43 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Petaling Jaya, Malaysia | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield But they do crop up quite frequently in Jazz and Brazilian "Bossa Nova".... | Any standards in your mind that have this chord crop up frequently? Just to get the chord sound in my head.  |
11-03-2006, 01:32 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | | How Insensitive
Girl from Ipanema
Corcovado
etc. etc.
Half diminished chords.
__________________
“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
Charles Mingus |
11-03-2006, 06:14 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Melbourne, Australia | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield How Insensitive
Girl from Ipanema
Corcovado
etc. etc.
Half diminished chords. | do you have any aebersold play-alongs by any chance? i have quite a few now (my teacher loves using them as a tool to implement theory) and those three are in several of the books! |
11-03-2006, 06:31 AM
| | | | A fully diminished chord can sound like a V7b9 without the root.
Ex.
Ab dim = Ab - Cb (B) - Ebb (D) - F
If you played it in the key of C over the G7 chord it has the same notes as G7b9. . . useful because the inversions are the same shape and spaced uniformly minor thirds apart from each other.
So in practice, a common use of the Ab dim chord is as a passing chord back to root (C). |
11-03-2006, 06:33 AM
| | | | Half-diminished chords show up as the ii chord in a ii-V cadence leading to the relative minor chord. In other words, if you're in C major and you want to do a "ii-V" to the A minor chord, you could go Bminor7b5 to E7 to A minor. This is quite common.
Also, it works as a chromatic approach chord to the IV. So, again in C major, if you're going to F major, you could procede it with a Gbminor7b5 chord. This happens in the Burt Bacharach/Hal David chestnut, "Do You Know the Way to San Jose." (Just before the lyrics "in a week maybe two...") |
11-03-2006, 07:23 AM
| | zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz | | Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Scotland | | Quote: |
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield How Insensitive
Girl from Ipanema
Corcovado
etc. etc.
Half diminished chords. | ...Autumn Leaves... |
11-04-2006, 10:59 AM
| | [acct disabled - multiple aliases] | | Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Venice, CA | | | When I learned theory albeit a Jazz School we were taught that in general the half-dimished chord was the II in minor. That a minor II-V-I was II mi7b5, V7 alt, I mi7. More important you need to look at where chord is going (and sometime where it came from) to see how it is functioning.
As noted previously a diminished chord might be a Dominant 7-9 in disguise. As explained to me back then you'd see a lot of diminshed chord on old sheet music. The reason is they were written so the average person could play the song. They didn't think the average person knew how to play altered dominants so they would replace with a diminished chord. Again you have to look at progression to idenify this, sometime a diminished chord was a passing chord like in Reelin In the Years by Steely Dan. | | Thread Tools | Search this Thread | | | | 
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