Various "modes" of the minor pentatonic scale

[JLW]

I was just reading up on some scales and was enlightened to realize that there are 5 modes to the minor pentatonic scale.

Now, my question is, can these modes be used any time that something is being played in that key?

For example:

Let's say I'm playing something in G

the minor pentatonic for the key of G is:

G------------
D---------3-5--
A-----3-5------
E-3-6----------- (3rd fret on this string is the root)

Another "mode" of this scale is:

G---------------
D----------5-8---- (5th fret on this string is the root)
A-----5-8---------
E-6-8-------------

Could I just go in between those two modes as I please? i feel as though that probably is wrong, so I figured I'd ask you guys. The book did not specify when to switch through various modes of the scale.

PS, try and dumb down the music theory talk. I am very ignorant when it comes to music theory and I'm working on it, so try to explain it to me in the most basic way possible.

[-Kramer-]

The second scale you have there is the Major Pentatonic scale of Bb. This is the relative major of the G minor pentatonic. This may sound complicated but it is simple. Each scale has the same notes, so you can use either one. The advantage of this is that starting on a different note (Bb instead of G) you will give you lines new life.

I hope this wasn't too overly complex.

[JLW]

got ya.


So you can play something in the key of the Bb major pentatonic scale, and it'll still sound okay when everyone else is playing in G? Simply because it's just another mode of G?

[-Kramer-]

Originally Posted by JLW

got ya.


So you can play something in the key of the Bb major pentatonic scale, and it'll still sound okay when everyone else is playing in G? Simply because it's just another mode of G?

Without going too indepth, yes. If you were able to play the G minor pentatonic scale, you should be able to play the Bb major pentatonic scale.

BUT if the key of the song is G major, you might try playing the G major pentatonic scale instead of the the minor one. If the key is G major you can play the G major pentatonic scale and you should try the E minor pentatonic scale as this is the relative minor of the G major scale.

Again hope this is not too complicated. Welcome to the world of modes.

[arcellus]

It might help you to look at it this way: playing a different "mode" of a scale is simply starting and ending the scale on a different scale note.

Choosing different places within the scale to start will emphasize certain notes, giving your overall line a slightly different color, and you'll find that there are some that you like better than others. The more you can practice starting and ending scales at places other than the root, the better - this will free up your melodic ideas and develop your ear. Also vary what beat you're starting on - solos can be very boring if every idea starts with the root of the chord on beat one, even though that may be the most obvious place to start.

[JLW]

Cool. Very helpful stuff.

Wish I could just find a teacher instead of learning this all on my own...

[DocBop]

A 5 note scale and 5 modes that should say something to you. Major scale has 7 notes and, yup you got it 7 modes. You can look at modes like chord inversions. With chord inversions you build the chord starting on different note of the chord. Root, 3rd, 5th, 7th or 3rd, 5th, 7th, root, or 5th, 7th, root, 3rd, finally 7th, root, 3rd, 5th. You do the same thing with scale its called modes.

So modes are all the same notes so you can use them interchangeably. Like someone else pointed out your G mi pent you started on, your next mode had the same notes, but it was the Bb major pent. Why back to theory G minor is the Relative Minor of Bb. By starting on different notes you tend to emphasise different notes so they sound different. So the note may be right, but may not be the sound you are looking for.

[-Kramer-]

Thanks for the input Docbop and arcellus. Those are the things I was trying to say, but was not so clear about.

[JLW]

So basically you guys are saying that it might be right but it won't necessarily sound right for every situation?

Do you just sort of figure these things out with a lot of practice?

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by JLW

So basically you guys are saying that it might be right but it won't necessarily sound right for every situation?

Do you just sort of figure these things out with a lot of practice?

Your ear is your best teacher. Play and listen, play and listen, then do it some more. After a metronome the best tool for learning is something to record yourself with.

[AxtoOx]

Someone never returned my scale and mode book, but different situations can call for different Modes. I forget which one is which but for instance Santana likes to use one mode because it sounds latin, Randy Rhodes used to like one because it sounds dark, etc. So sometimes the mode you choose depends on whos stuff your playing, or what style the band plays. Most stuff is covered by the minor and major, but if you check, all the modes are there if you use the whole neck instead of just one position.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by AxtoOx

Someone never returned my scale and mode book, but different situations can call for different Modes. I forget which one is which but for instance Santana likes to use one mode because it sounds latin, Randy Rhodes used to like one because it sounds dark, etc. So sometimes the mode you choose depends on whos stuff your playing, or what style the band plays. Most stuff is covered by the minor and major, but if you check, all the modes are there if you use the whole neck instead of just one position.

Santana and many players use Dorian mode over minor chords. It changes one note compared to natural minor, but that one note give color and spice. The mode many say sounds Spanish or Latin is Phrygian. I don't know anything about Randy Rhodes so can't tell you what he considered dark sounding. I hear guitar player alway talking about Yngwie Malmsteen and how he uses Harmonic Minor and its modes all the time. Modes typically are used based on the chord that is being played.

Your comment most stuff is cover by major and minor is an over simplification. You could say everything is based on patterns in the chromatic scale and keep it real simple. But even major and minor have notes some call avoid notes, or notes that require special handling so not as simple as you think. That is why some use modes and other scales so those avoid notes are handled for them.

[AxtoOx]

Originally Posted by DocBop

Santana and many players use Dorian mode over minor chords. It changes one note compared to natural minor, but that one note give color and spice. The mode many say sounds Spanish or Latin is Phrygian. I don't know anything about Randy Rhodes so can't tell you what he considered dark sounding. I hear guitar player alway talking about Yngwie Malmsteen and how he uses Harmonic Minor and its modes all the time. Modes typically are used based on the chord that is being played.

Your comment most stuff is cover by major and minor is an over simplification. You could say everything is based on patterns in the chromatic scale and keep it real simple. But even major and minor have notes some call avoid notes, or notes that require special handling so not as simple as you think. That is why some use modes and other scales so those avoid notes are handled for them.

Fair enough, I was using myself and what I play as a reference. I can get by on most things w/ Blues, Major, Minor and Harmonic Minor. Again, based on what I like to play. Stuff I write is always blues or harmonic minor.

[BillMason]

Originally Posted by JLW

So you can play something in the key of the Bb major pentatonic scale, and it'll still sound okay when everyone else is playing in G? Simply because it's just another mode of G?

My answer is no - if the chord the rest of the band is playing is a Gmi, and you're playing along using a BbMaj, it will throw the overall harmony way off kilter, as where everyone else will be emphasizing the G, the Bb, and the D, in that order, you will be emphasizing the Bb, the D and the F, in that order,, so the root will not be played in the bass, which is typically where it belongs (according to just about everyone's ear). Lead guitar, voice and any melody instrument can emphasize these notes while bass, rhythm guitar and the left hand of the keyboard player will emphasize the basic chord - the root, fifth and passing tones in between, depending on the style of music.

Unless you're soloing, in which case you are the melody instrument, and then it's all about what you hear - playing solo you don't want to emphasize the root and fifth, as that is someone else's job, and you will sound boring.