Walking Bass and Blues Scale

[Journey55]

Can someone explain walking basslines and blues scales to me? I'm quite lost on how to make walking basslines (in jazz) and I have no clue what a blues scale is (or the scale pattern for it). Sorry if this seems stupid but if you do explain it, imagine you're talking to a five year old, because while I do know a bit of theory I wouldn't count on myself knowing this stuff...thanks!

[Cloverfield]

Rufus Reid has a book called The Evolving Bassist that does an excellent job of explaining how to play walking bass lines. I would recommend purchasing it.
Besides that, do you listen to much jazz? Perhaps transcribing the bass line to a few 12-bar choruses of a jazz blues and then analyzing the notes that were chosen over the chords would help you.

The common blues scale is just a minor pentatonic scale with a raised 4th scale degree thrown in between the perfect fourth and perfect fifth. (I hope that makes sense.)
So, for example, a C Blues Scales would be: C-Eb-F-F#-G-Bb-(C)

Does that make sense?

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by Journey55

Can someone explain walking basslines and blues scales to me? I'm quite lost on how to make walking basslines (in jazz) and I have no clue what a blues scale is (or the scale pattern for it). Sorry if this seems stupid but if you do explain it, imagine you're talking to a five year old, because while I do know a bit of theory I wouldn't count on myself knowing this stuff...thanks!

You now have the blues scale pattern .

Walking bass line. Here is what Ed says in his book Building Walking Bass Lines. "A walking bass line is the most common approach to jazz bass playing. The term "walking" is used to describe the moving feeling that quarter notes create in the bass part. Just like walking with your feet, the walking bass line is one step after the other that takes you somewhere. This is an important concept to remember, the walking bass line is movement."

Which brings up the question how much movement is needed in this song. Under a Cmaj7 chord if we played the chord's tones our bass line could be R-3-5-7, that's movement. However we may only use some of those intervals, i.e. just roots may be correct for this song. Just the movement of adding the 5th may be enough for a walking bass line (R-5-R-5). So it's left up to you how you walk your bass line.

There are many ways to do this I think chromatic runs to the next chord are the easiest. Some may insert a secondary dominant into the bass line and let that draw you into the next chord. For example; you are playing the R-3-5-7 under the Cmaj7 chord and now need to go to the Fmaj7 chord. What is F's dominant note? It's a C, OK change your last R-3-5-7 to a R-3-5-8 and let that 8 (C in the next octave) draw you to the Fmaj7 chord. Is that neat or what?

So once you know the chord that is being used in the song make the bass line you think fits - then - see how much movement is needed - should you walk it to the next chord - or - is just the movement of R-3-5-7 enough.

Yea, it's art, lot of this stuff is left up to you. Two books have been mentioned, here is another $9.95 book that is dirt simple and to the point. Bass Lines in Minutes by Kris Berg. Amazon.com: Bass Lines in Minutes - An Easy Method for Creating Bass Lines (9780793551682): Kris Berg: Books

Have fun.

P.S. You were talking about the blues scale and also walking bass lines. If you have a blues chord progression of:
C7///| C7///| C7///| C7///|
F7///| F7///| C7///| C7///|
G7///| F7///|C7///| G7///| loop back

How about a walking bass line of R-5-b7-R over each of the above chords. Or R-5-b7-8, or R-3-5-b7 or you decide which sounds right for you.

Major Scale Box. 

G|---2---|-------|---3---|---4---| 1st string
D|---6---|-------|---7---|---8---|
A|---3---|---4---|-------|---5---|
E|-------|---R---|-------|---2---|4th string

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUK5pE5x_6A

In this one you've got two chords per measure in measures 7 and 8. With 4/4 time you only have time for 2 notes per chord. What to do? How about R-5 for both chords or R-8 for the first chord then R-8 for the second chord. It's your bass line, whatever you like best. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMYW...eature=related

Have fun.

[Stumbo]

Here's a section from my >500 links thread(see sig. below) that may help you out:

~Blues
Becoming a blues bass player
Click on "B"(at the bottom of page), then "Blues", then "more about the blues". Blues progressions explained w/ audio samples
Basic lessons/free backing tracks

Getting into the blues
Walking bass lines examples
Walking bass lines books
Slow blues
1 "Must know" blues tunes
2

1 Blues jam terms/progressions
2
3

Ice Cream Changes
Backdoor Progression
ii-V-I
more blues

1 First jam
2
3

Gig coming up

Blues bass player's club

Influential musicians (mostly) pre-1959
History and styles
20 important blues recordings & more

"Blues Bass" by TB member Jon Liebman
Ed Friedland's Essential Styles and Techniques
Blues books
"Complete Rhythm Guitar Guide for Blues Bands"
"101 Blues Bass Patterns by Larry McCabe

[bassandbeyond]

It sounds like you haven't had much music theory yet, in which case walking bass lines over jazz chord progressions is probably going to be difficult for you.

You might be ready for walking over simple blues progressions, however. Actually, most blues walking lines are based on the MAJOR pentatonic scale, rather than the MINOR pentatonic/blues scale you asked about. Major Pentatonic starting on root C would be played as follows:

C D E G A C

I recently did a short instructional video for LA Music Academy demonstrating one possible twelve bar walking blues line. Maybe you'll find it helpful. Good luck!

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by bassandbeyond

I recently did a short instructional video for LA Music Academy demonstrating one possible twelve bar walking blues line. Maybe you'll find it helpful. Good luck!

Well done, I've bookmarked it.

Thanks

[bassandbeyond]

Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos

Well done, I've bookmarked it.

Thanks

[carlthegroover]

Oh, I'm so glad I've devoted some time (if little) to learn what all those musical concepts mean, so eventhough I'm a beginner in both bass and music, I did understand the terms. Cool!

Sometimes I thought I really didn't know a thing. Does that mean I'm actually becoming a more rounded musician? I sure hope so.

Sorry, off-topic.

[Matthew_84]

Hey guys, just got a quick question about blues. I've just started to dig into it, but so far I've seen lots of progressions like Malcolm mentioned earlier with C7's, F7's, and G7's. Now the roots of the chords fit in many different scales, but the all of those chord tones don't fit in any scale that I can think of. Is this typical in Blues? Is Blues a bit more relaxed when it comes to scales and modes and things like that? If so, are there common chords that you're more likely to see in Blues?

Thanks,

Matt

[Journey55]

Thanks for all you guy's help with this stuff! I have one more question though, which doesn't exactly pretain to Blues (and most of you will probably find it a simple question) but.....is there an easy way to tell what key/scales to use in a song by the chords? (ie if someone gave you the chord charts for a song)

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by Matthew_84

Hey guys, just got a quick question about blues. I've just started to dig into it, but so far I've seen lots of progressions like Malcolm mentioned earlier with C7's, F7's, and G7's. Now the roots of the chords fit in many different scales, but the all of those chord tones don't fit in any scale that I can think of. Is this typical in Blues? Is Blues a bit more relaxed when it comes to scales and modes and things like that? If so, are there common chords that you're more likely to see in Blues?

Thanks,

Matt

Yes, that is very typical of Blues. Blues defies commonly held music theory when it comes to the function of the dominant seventh chord, a chord which indeed is featured quite prominently in the genre.

Jazz Blues is a little bit different than standard Blues in that it incorporates some more complicated chords and chord progressions. Most standard Blues tunes will work wholly off of dominant seventh chords.

A dominant seventh chord (such as a C7) is based off of the Mixolydian mode. So, for a C7 the scale for that chord would be: C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb-(C)
Technically in a standard 12 Bar Blues in C you can get away with playing the C Blues scale the whole time, but at some point it's nice to move past that and start thinking about connecting the moving dominant seventh chords to their corresponding scales.

[prd004]

Here's an example of a walking blues bass line over dominant chords with pretty clear video you can watch and hear what's going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MDdG...e_gdata_player

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by Cloverfield

A dominant seventh chord (such as a C7) is based off of the Mixolydian mode. So, for a C7 the scale for that chord would be: C-D-E-F-G-A-Bb-(C)
Technically in a standard 12 Bar Blues in C you can get away with playing the C Blues scale the whole time, but at some point it's nice to move past that and start thinking about connecting the moving dominant seventh chords to their corresponding scales.

Sorry Cloverfield, which corresponding scale do you mean? Do you mean changing the dominant 7th chords into the chords that they would be if you were playing that key diatonically? Or do you mean adding mixolydian scale degrees, other than the chord tones, to your notes available to play while your playing in a dominant 7th chord? Or do you mean something completed different?

Sorry Cloverfield, I know it may be a long post. I've just been studying modes and their corresponding chords for the last year or so, and this idea of moving dominant 7th chords kind of throws me off.

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by Journey55

Thanks for all you guy's help with this stuff! I have one more question though, which doesn't exactly pretain to Blues (and most of you will probably find it a simple question) but.....is there an easy way to tell what key/scales to use in a song by the chords? (ie if someone gave you the chord charts for a song)

That's actually not a simple question at all. I'll answer it to the best of my abilities. Blues is actually a bit different then what I'm used to though and that's why I'm inquiring about it.

But to find out the key of the song can be difficult at first but once you understand how to do it, it becomes easier. The key of the song is always the I (roman numeral one) of the progression. The "I" is the tonic of the scale. The key. In 12-bar blues for example. We know that a stock progression is:

I, I, I, I, IV, IV, I, I, V, IV, I, I

If the chords you are playing are:

G7, G7, G7, G7, C7, C7, G7, G7, D7, C7, G7, G7

Then the key of the song is G. And a hint about finding the key, is that it is commonly the last note of the song. Being that it is the tonic, the tonal centre of the progression, it is the chord that resolves the whole progression. So when a song ends with a final, nice, resolving sounding chord. It is likely the tonal centre, the key of the scale.

The scale though is a different animal and requires a decent understanding of theory and modes, some of the time. I say that because blues and a lot of other songs don't fit 100% to a certain scale, they may have moving dominant 7th chords, chromatic notes, etc.

But a C natural major scale will have the notes C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. Those are the notes of the C natural major scale, or the C Ionian mode in order. If you get this scale pattern down solid, doing a two octave scale, you will be able to figure out its corresponding chords.

Scale degree I has the chord tones of the 1st, 3rd, and 5th notes of the scale, or C, E, G.
Scale degree II has 2nd, 4th, 6th, or D, F, A.
III has 3rd, 5th, 7th, or E, G, B.
IV has 4th, 6th, 8th or F, A, C.
V has 5th, 7th, 9th or G, B, D.
VI has 6th, 8th, 10th or A, C, E.
VII has 7th, 9th, 11th or B, D, F.

If you figure out the related chords to the scale degrees of C natural major you'll see the chords are as follows:

I - Cmaj
II - Dmin
III - Emin
IV - Fmaj
V - Gmaj
VI - Amin
VII - Bb5 (not to be played as a B flat, but as a B minor chord with a flat 5th (B, D, F)

It will be confusing at first and I hope you read through it slowly and keep at it. There are a lot of resources here that explain it better than I have. Just play the C natural major scale counting the scale degrees as you go, I, II, III, IV, V, VI, VII, VIII (which is the octave of the tonic), IX, etc. And then when you need to figure out the III chord, figure out what the 3rd, 5th, 7th of that scale is and that will be the chord.

I should clarify something here: The natural major scale is made up these steps. Whole-Tone, Whole-Tone, Semi-tone, Whole-Tone, Whole-Tone, Whole-Tone, Semi-Tone. So look at a keyboard, or piano keys and find the C. A whole-tone above it is a D, a whole-tone above that is an E, a semi-tone above that is an F, a whole-tone above that is a G, a whole-tone above that is an A, a whole-tone above that is a B, and a semi-tone above that is a C. I chose the C natural major scale as an example as it is the most straight forward, C, D, E, F, G, A, B, C. But the natural major scale HAS to fit the pattern I mentioned of a whole-tones and semi-tones. So if you look at a natural major scale for the key of F using this same pattern, the notes will be as follows: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F.

Once you understand this, start adding 7ths to the chord tones of a natural mjaor scale. Instead of looking at just the 1st, 3rd, and 5th for the I chord, stack another third on top of it (the 7th): C, E, G, B
II will have 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, or D, F, A, C
III will have 3rd, 5th, 7th, 9th, or E, G, B, D
figure out the rest.

You should find the chords for the C natural major scale are as follows:
I - Cmaj7
II - Dmin7
III - Emin7
IV - Fmaj7
V - G7
VI - Amin7
VII - Bmin7b5

The chords for the F natural major scale are as follows:
I - Fmaj7
II - Gmin7
III - Amin7
IV - Bbmaj7
V - C7
VI - Dmin7
VII - Emin7b5

* Do you see how the scale degrees of the C natural major scale and the F natural major scale have the same chords, but made up of different notes? Look at the the VII scale degree of both scales, the VII chord for C natural major is a Bbmin7b5 and the VII for the F natural major scale is an Emin7b5. Each scale will have its own chords and they will not change as long as you are playing that scale diatonically (playing the notes of that scale and nothing else), only the notes will change depending on what note the scale starts on.

And to clarify something else: when I say "C natural major scale" or "F natural major scale". I am NOT referring to the fact that the C or F note is a natural (not a sharp or flat). I am referring to the fact the the scale is called the "Natural Major Scale." This is because there are several different versions of a major scale. Like the Mixolydian for example which is the same as a Natural Major Scale but with a flat 7th, or dominant sevent (hence why a C7 chord fits in as the tonic of the mixolydian scale). If I were writing out a Natural Major Scale for a C#, I would still call it a "C# natural major scale".

Once you understand the natural major (ionian) scale, start learning the different scales: dorian, phrygian, lydian, mixolydian, aeolian (natural minor), locrain, blues, melodic minor and harmonic minor.

There I think I just gave you enough work to keep you occupied for a couple of weeks.... er... months.



Sorry I hope I didn't confuse you and that my explanation was accurate. But the truth of the answer is, to be able to look at the chords of a progression and know the key/scale you must know all of the scales and which chords fit in that scale and where. There is no easy way, but once you learn your scales and their chords it will become easy. It does take some work though.

And as a final note, re-read this post as you go through this, especially this part :"The scale though is a different animal and requires a decent understanding of theory and modes, some of the time. I say that because blues and a lot of other songs don't fit 100% to a certain scale, they may have moving dominant 7th chords, chromatic notes, etc." You may do all of this work, and then start transcribing a song and realize that its chords don't fit in with a certain scale. And that's where I'm at in regards to learning how to determine which scale you are in for Blues. This isn't meant to deter you from learning all of the stuff I had mentioned, it's just a heads up. The info I posted above is if you are following strict music theory, or playing notes diatonically. A lot of songs weren't played diatonically. A song can modulate to another scale for a couple of chords for example. Learning this stuff is endless. You'll come across examples that contradict everything you've learnt so far all of the time. The best thing to do, in my opinion, is to learn what I posted, but don't believe it to be a hard rule. Rules are meant to be broken. What I wrote is a guideline and should only be treated as such. But as you learn theory, learn how to play as many songs as you can, and analyze their chords, their scales, and the bassist's choices of notes. See if they played diatonically or not, why or why not? As you answer these questions you will become a very strong bassist with an army of notes and chords at your disposal.

Have fun,

Matt

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by prd004

Here's an example of a walking blues bass line over dominant chords with pretty clear video you can watch and hear what's going on.

Misty Morning Blues - Bass - YouTube

Hey prd004. That is beautiful! Some great playing, a great song, and a great sounding bass. I've been interested in getting something like that for a while... I think you just brought the GAS back!

Thanks for posting that, it certainly opened my eyes up to some more possibilities.

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by 251

I am told by my reed player friends, that repeating a note on the fly is way harder at 240 quarter notes/min, on a horn, than playing a chromatic. Something to do with stopping your fingers & not stopping your tongue.

That is the Why of it. How to apply that is the musical puzzle. Sometimes, understanding is the booby prize. Just let the music come out & take what you get. If you didn't like it, don't do that again. 8-)

?... That confused me... I thought a Blues scale only consisted of six notes, so a C Blues scale would be:

C - Eb - F - F#/Gb - G - A

So then I read this: Blues scale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia...

Now I'm really confused...



...Maybe I should refrain from writing big complicated posts about theory, when clearly I need some work myself.

[JTE]

Typically the "blues scale" IS the pentatonic minor with the #4/b5 added. That means it's 1, b3, 4, #4, 5, and b7 of the major scale of the root. So, in C it's C, Eb, F F#/Gb, G, Bb (not A which is the 6th, as you posted in #17).

John

[Matthew_84]

Originally Posted by JTE

Typically the "blues scale" IS the pentatonic minor with the #4/b5 added. That means it's 1, b3, 4, #4, 5, and b7 of the major scale of the root. So, in C it's C, Eb, F F#/Gb, G, Bb (not A which is the 6th, as you posted in #17).

John

Right sorry about that, you are right. I didn't think those notes through too well.

So, okay, is this Heptatonic Blues Scale: 1, 2, b3, 4, b5, 6, b7. Very common? I've never heard of that until I read it on Wikipedia.

[JTE]

Thing is I hardly ever think of the blues scale when playing bass. On bass it's much more about the chord tones as my main targets. My choices for the other, passing, tones are EVERYTHING. It's so dependent on context that I don't think about staying in C major. Chromatic tones are great leading tones into the root of the next chord so I just don't think scalar ideas any more.

John

[Matthew_84]

Okay, I got it.... Makes perfect sense, thanks John