walking. having a hard time breaking out of the root-fifth-octave mold.

[mr mastodon]

when i walk, as hard as i try, the rock bassist in me will often take over and i'll do the root-fifth-octave stuff out of habit. i guess it's ok at higher tempos but ...

my instructor asks me to do more scalar things as i pass over so many potential notes when i do that. do i just need to continue practicing my scales/modes in general as i have been? it doesn't seem like enough at this point. or are there some specific exercises you recommend? i know the other notes of the scale are there, it just happens so much. it's like my fingers are so used to it.



p.s. i have the friedland book on building walking bass lines. i don't have it with me at the moment, but is there anything in there about this?

[fearceol]

http://cgi.ebay.com/TODD-JOHNSON-WAL...item588418804d


As you have a teacher already, you may not need this DVD, though it's a good investment IMO. Todd breaks the lessons down into small pieces (modules). He advises to practice each module 100 times if necessary in order to internalise them. You should be at the point where you could play them in your sleep, before moving to the next module. If you dont internalise them, then you wont be able to play bass lines on the fly, he says.

So, you seem to be on the right path, with the general message being lots of practice

[MalcolmAmos]

Understand I'm a newbie, and have just broken away from my beloved R-3-5-3 to major pentatonic R-2-3-5-6 the five beats threw me for awhile - everything we do is 4/4 or 3/4 - and I want to be back to the R at the chord change. So I have to anticipate when I'll have room for the pentatonic - right now I'm walking the pentatonic up and then back - that takes some space - If the chord changes comes in the middle of that I get flustered.

I know it will get better with time, so any advice I could give is on your melodic riffs, just do them. Heck it's a feel thing, and we will get comfortable the more we try. I see no reason in doing the full 7 note scale in scale order - that does sound like a scale exercise instead of a bass riff.

Good luck.

[Michael Case]

Pick a tune from the real book and practice playing the arpeggios throughout. You can start from the root on the first chord, but from there just go to the chord tone closest to the last note. Obviously you'll be playing quarter notes.

So if you take "All The Things You Are"

Fminor7: F, Ab, C, Eb
to
Bbminor7: Db, F, Bb, Db
to
Eb7: Eb, Db, Bb, G
to
AbMajor7: Ab, G, Eb, C

You get the point, this is a good start, once you are comfortable with this try throwing in some scale tones as well as chromatic passing tones.

And remember, it takes a while for what you practice to show up in your "real world" playing.

[Billnc]

Say you have 4 beats per measure, beat one will be the root, this works everytime, but you don't have to target the root every time. Beat four is the note that leads to the next root, beat one. To start this should be a half step below or above the next root, or scale tone above. This leaves beats two and three, you can use chord tones here OR, beat two can be a lead tone to a chord tone on beat three.
so
beat/ note:
1. Root
2. chord tone or note leading to chord tone
3. chord tone
4. approach to next root.

Lot's more you can do but this is a good start.

[Ed Fuqua]

BigEgoHead recommends..., plus some folks around here seem to think pretty highly of it.

[PJSShearer]

Originally Posted by Billnc

Say you have 4 beats per measure, beat one will be the root, this works everytime, but you don't have to target the root every time. Beat four is the note that leads to the next root, beat one. To start this should be a half step below or above the next root, or scale tone above. This leaves beats two and three, you can use chord tones here OR, beat two can be a lead tone to a chord tone on beat three.
so
beat/ note:
1. Root
2. chord tone or note leading to chord tone
3. chord tone
4. approach to next root.

Lot's more you can do but this is a good start.

+1 - in fact I would say that the above describes the fundamentals of a walking bass line. You'd be surprised how far you can get using this methodology!! (I did and I was :-)). However, once you feel comfortable with it, you'll probably have your own ideas as to how to take it forward.

[Throckmorten]

Try not starting on the root.

Not on every measure, but if you have a couple measures in the same key, try starting the 2nd measure on 5th, or 3rd or even b7. Try it a couple measures in a row.

Or start on the octive, jump to the lower third and walk down to the 5th.

[zenman]

You already have Ed Friedland's book. I suggest you read it. The solutions to your problem are in there.

[pbass888]

ed friedland book is great even if you get thru the 1st 40 pages you will have food for a lifetime regarding walking

[steveksux]

Concentrate on learning the 3rd and 7th tones of the chords. Those determine the tonality of the chord 90% of the time, main exceptions being b5 or #5. Once the 3rd and 7th are second nature, those aren't hard to negotiate, but they can be overwhelming if you're still struggling with which 3rd and 7th to play as you go by.

You really want to avoid hitting major thirds on minor chords and vice versa, and landing on the wrong 7th as well.

Lots of chord patterns change by cycle of 4ths, you can do the root, 2nd, third, fifth scale tone, and go down a step puts you on the root of the next fourth. Or do a similar arpeggio, root, third fifth, either root again on 4th beat to transition to the next chord a fourth away or flat the fifth on 4th beat to chromatically go to the next one. Or just go up chromatically (first step is whole though) to go up a fourth over 4 beats.

For II V I in C:
(Dm-----G7---------C)
D E F A G B D Db C
D E F F#G B D G C

Lots of combinations like that. Reverse the arpeggio, (Root fifth third root) also, walk down instead of up.

That's why you need to pay attention to the 3rd and 7th of the chords, you'll be walking on them, they are key to the tonality of the chord, they are the clunkers if you get them wrong.

Randy

[Billnc]

Walking can be a thinking game, I would recommend at least some of the time practicing no faster than you can think, even if that means practicing out of time. Pick one approach method and utilize that extensively, if you hit a wall, stop think about where you want or need to go and then got to that note. When you've got some things mapped out then try to play in time. I will also practice a one chord vamp for a while utilizing the whole fingerboard. It takes a while to use the concepts you are presently learning in an actual playing situation, always keep this in mind.

[JTE]

Do the basics as Billnc says in post 5. Think of it this way- first, target the LAST beat of the measure. Figure out what you're going to play to approach the root on the first beat of the next measure. Either a scale degreee from the root, a half-step approach (either of these from above or below), or a fifth. And plan the root for beat 1. Now you need to fill in the other two, and you'll GENERALLY want a strong chord tone on beat 3. Now you only have one note to find, and frankly, that's very liberating as it can be just about anything as long as it flows melodically between your notes on beat 1 and 3.

Try just playing the approach note and the root against a chord progression- hit the approach note on 4 and the root on 1 and don't play anything on the rest of the measure. That'll help get your hands finding your target notes. Then let your ear lead you to the other two notes.

John

[dave64o]

Originally Posted by zenman

You already have Ed Friedland's book. I suggest you read it. The solutions to your problem are in there.

Agreed. Unfortunately I forgot I already had that one and bought "Walking Jazz Lines for Bass" by Jay Hungerford when my instructor suggested it. It's a pretty good book also, but having recently found the Friedland book it looks like they're pretty similar in their approach. Since you already have Friedland's I'd suggest spending some quality time with it.

I'm primarily a rock player but I'm finding the exercises in the books very helpful. In addition to explaining things very well and providing exercises that force you to think about what you're doing and why it works, they also have a jazz focus and that's pushing me to think and do things differently than I'm used to.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by mr mastodon

when i walk, as hard as i try, the rock bassist in me will often take over and i'll do the root-fifth-octave stuff out of habit. i guess it's ok at higher tempos but ...

my instructor asks me to do more scalar things as i pass over so many potential notes when i do that. do i just need to continue practicing my scales/modes in general as i have been? it doesn't seem like enough at this point. or are there some specific exercises you recommend? i know the other notes of the scale are there, it just happens so much. it's like my fingers are so used to it.



p.s. i have the friedland book on building walking bass lines. i don't have it with me at the moment, but is there anything in there about this?

Try learning some more interesting music .

I.e. there's a lot of progressive/alternative stuff out there that's excellent practice to learn. I.e. A good bit of Rush and Yes's music is accessible to most of us and can really expand your horizons. And so on practically into infinity.

It's probably not you, but the music you're concentrating on....

LS

[Rattman]

Passing notes are the pretty sprinkles on your cupcake... Intervals are your friends... listen to some Berry Oakley riffs, he'll be happy to give up some of his inspired playing secrets to you.

[MarkTAW]

I read somewhere that Jerry Garcia would challenge himself with little things like "don't play any eighth notes tonight" or "don't play any thirds tonight" (during his solos). Little things like that to keep it interesting during a relentless touring schedule.

Give yourself a similar challenge. When the band introduces a song to you, don't play any 5ths, or only use them between two other non-root notes.

[Chris K]

All very good advice...

My two cents... Develop your ability to play melodies. Any simple song will do; pick a new one every day. You'll automatically start to integrate melodic fragments into your bass playing.

[Chris K]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

BigEgoHead recommends..., plus some folks around here seem to think pretty highly of it.

Rule #7: The posting of non-solicited advertisments in the forums will not be tolerated.

EDITED: Lowly backstabbing, but it won't happen again, since Ed and I finally got some communication going.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Chris K

Rule #7: The posting of non-solicited advertisments in the forums will not be tolerated.

Feel free to report it, Paul has not yet had a problem with me listing links to a book I wrote but do not sell.
EDIT:Chris K and Ed have used the private message function to reach an accord.