walking lines with 2,5's all in one measure and other inconvenient changes

loonj91 · #1 09-09-2007, 10:44 AM

It seems that i cannot create walking basslines that have these in them. I was trying to walk on "Satin Doll" (just one example of what i was having trouble with). i have trouble approaching my target and getting it to sound smooth and not jumpy. I am doing Satin doll which i am particularly having trouble with. coul anyone help me with this particular song and give walking advice for this type of thing? The head is this of satin doll:

|d-7 g7|d-7 g7| E-7 a7 |E-7 a7|

|A-7 d7|Ab-7 Db7|Cmaj7 d-7|E-7 a7|

**Mark Wilson** · #2 09-09-2007, 10:49 AM

Just so you know, I would put all chords in caps.

|D-7 G7|D-7 G7| E-7 A7 |E-7 A7|

|A-7 D7|Ab-7 Db7|Cmaj7 D-7|E-7 A7|

Mainly because in some places, a lower case note means it's minor, whereas a capital would be major.

Also, are you trying to play in 4?

Chrix · #3 09-09-2007, 11:07 AM

It's all about emphasizing chord tones and leading tones, as well as V-I movement. They'll help smooth your lines out:

Example bassline on Satin Doll:

|D F G F|D A G F| E G A G |E G A A|

|A C D A|Ab B Db B|C E F D|E G A A|

Also, there's nothing wrong with:

|D D G G|D D G G| E E A A |E E A A|

|A A D D|Ab Ab Db Db|C C D D|E E A A|

But that can obviously get old.

Don't be afraid to just try practicing walking between ii-V7 over and over again. It happens so often in all music, but especially jazz that you'll never get away from it. Getting ahold of the Abersold ii-V7-I book might not hurt either. It'll help you hear the movement as well as check out what the bass player is doing over these changes.

Also remember that over a ii-V7, you can just hang out of V7:

|D-7 G7|D-7 G7|

|G B C C#|D E F F#| etc...

The biggest thing that will help, though is listening and transcribing. Most bassists that are getting into learning jazz and are told to transcribe usually think they should only transcribe solos, but transcribing basslines is ridiculously beneficial. Find a recording of Ray Brown or someone playing Satin Doll or any other tune and transcribe a few of their walking choruses. Then commit them to memory and work off of that. Hope this helped!

billoetjen · #4 09-09-2007, 11:16 AM

Chrix -
That was such excellent advice. Simple, solidly founded, doable, and you gave examples of more than one approach, including something safe as a point of departure or to fall back on in case of choking. You must be a great teacher.
That's what I love about this site above all others.
Bill

And Thanks for the question, a good one that needs to be visited.

loonj91 · #5 09-09-2007, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Wilson

Also, are you trying to play in 4?

yeah i am trying to play in 4

loonj91 · #6 09-09-2007, 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrix

i was trying to do chromatic approaches to make it sound more smooth, but i cant approach the G from Gb because D is minor, and i didn't want to do it from Ab because the tritone didn't sound fitting...

I was thinking maybe:

|D F G B|D F G F| E Bb A F| E G A Bb|
----------------------------- or
--------------------------|E C B Bb|

|A C B A| Ab C Db B||C Db D Eb|E G A Db|

Does this sound alright to you guys or is this bad? I have not heard the harmony so i am not basing it off that i am just looking at the chords.

Mr.Phil · #7 09-09-2007, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by loonj91

i was trying to do chromatic approaches to make it sound more smooth, but i cant approach the G from Gb because D is minor, and i didn't want to do it from Ab because the tritone didn't sound fitting...

I was thinking maybe:

|D F G B|D F G F| E Bb A F| E G A Bb|
----------------------------- or
--------------------------|E C B Bb|

|A C B A| Ab C Db B||C Db D Eb|E G A Db|

Does this sound alright to you guys or is this bad? I have not heard the harmony so i am not basing it off that i am just looking at the chords.

I could be wrong, but I think it would be fine to approach the G from Gb or Ab, all depends on what you play in the three beats preceding the transition. Approaching the next change in a song chromatically is a pretty common approach and can even imply other neat changes. Just my thoughts.

Alvaro Martín Gómez A. · #8 09-09-2007, 12:14 PM

This is an approach (among many ones, of course) that definitely works.

HaVIC5 · #9 09-09-2007, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Phil

I could be wrong, but I think it would be fine to approach the G from Gb or Ab, all depends on what you play in the three beats preceding the transition. Approaching the next change in a song chromatically is a pretty common approach and can even imply other neat changes. Just my thoughts.

Thats the beauty of it. F# works fine over the D-7 because its not functioning as the major 3rd of the chord, but rather a chromatic approach to the next chord. It's an important distinction to make.

loonj91 · #10 09-09-2007, 02:56 PM

instead of hitting the g on the third beat, would any chord tone of G7 work harmonically?

Chrix · #11 09-09-2007, 04:19 PM

billoetjen-

Thanks for the kind words. This forum, both the BG side and the DB side (which I frequent quite a bit more) is really a wonderful resource for all levels, styles and manner of bassist. I'm just glad to be a small part of it.

Loon-

As Mr. Phil and Havic said, using F# to get to G is not problematic, even over D-7 because it stops being a chord tone of D-7 and turns into a leading tone of G7 (F# isn't a chord tone of G7 either, but we still manage to use it all the time. It just becomes one of those quirky little things about walking basslines. And believe it or not, even in the grand scheme of things, approaching G with Ab from D doesn't really sound all that bad either. I've done it plenty of times on this tune and many others. It helps also to remember that 99 times in 100, the bassline won't do enough to alter the harmony that is going on. If the pianist or guitarist is playing the proper chords and voicings, the tenth of a second that you play an Ab over a D-7 chord will hardly be noticeable.

Also! You can walk an entire measure of a chord or two and never play the roots to those chords! Which also opens up a world of possibilities. Example: (I'll start on D just to get started)

|D E F E|F E F Eb|E F G G#|A E A C#| Etc...

Also repeat notes by octaves (I use an apostrophe to show an octave jump up and two apostrophes for down).

|D D' D E|F D G F|E E' E F#|G G# A A"| etc...

And one more trick for tunes like this. Whenever you have a song where two measures of ii-V7 are repeated, you can treat it as one measure of ii and one measure of V7. Here's an example:

|D-7 G7|D-7 G7| ≈ |D-7 |G7 |

It helps that D-7 and G7 share some common tones and are derived from the same scale.

But again, I can't stress how much listening and transcription will help you figure this out. Or even purchase some bassline books. There are some great editions of Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Rufus Reid, etc... that are just their walking basslines over standards and such. Jazz is a music of plagiarism. We learn licks played by the masters and put them into our playing. The same can be said about piano and guitar voicings and comping patterns as well as basslines. I still use the first blues bassline I learned when I was a kid.

And if you're really still struggling with some of this, go out and get yourself a teacher. I can explain all of this till I'm blue in the face, but it'd be really beneficial to have someone that can show you as well as explain it.

Best of luck! And make sure to keep asking questions.

By the way, anyone who reads all this owes me $30 for a music lesson

**Mark Wilson** · #12 09-09-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alvaro Martín Gómez A.

This is an approach (among many ones, of course) that definitely works.

Wow!
I used to read Tabs, and now I can hardly do it!
The notes are SO much easier to read!
Sorry. Back On Topic

Thanks, Alvaro! haha