Walking in minor over seventh cord blues progression

[mr george]

Can it or should i say does it work?I was at a blues jam night recently and some dude got up and started walking in pure minor.To me it sounded cool even though i never do it but to one of the guitarist that was there who is also a teacher he seemed to think it was a huge no-no and was quite annoyed.

Any thought on this?I've been messing with it myself since i heard the guy doing it and it sounds kinda jazzy but i will only throw it in occassionally,not for a whole song.

[Basshoofd]

You mean for a G7 he played G minor? I'd use it for occasional effect only, just like you. The flat 3rd sounds great in blues but I would generally leave that to the lead players

[mr george]

yes correct,so for eg for G7 you play 1,2nd,flat 3rd,4th,5th,flat 6th,flat 7th notes but obviously not continuously in that order.sometimes add in passing notes,sometimes just 1st,flat 3rd,5th,flat 7th,octave or just blues scale,etc. gives it a bit of a dark jazzy moody overtone

[anonymous122511]

Playing a minor 3rd over major and dominant chords will sound like a wrong note to most people most of the time. 3rds and 7ths define these chords and playing he wrong one will scream to the room that you don't know what you're doing. Truth.

[Schlyder]

Edit*** I was half asleep when I wrote this... and somehow I read it to say he was also using the major 3rd and major 6th in the scale. As JA pointed out, it is a plain minor scale and is not a good scale choice over a G& chord.
Thanks for catching that for me Jeff.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by Schlyder

I believe that is the Bebop Dominant scale.
Totally fine to use over the G7 chord.... just don't sit on the Bb (b3) It will clash with the 3rd (B) of the major triad in the G7 chord. Use it only as a passing tone.
Same can be said for the Eb (b6) it will be clashing with the 5th (D) so don't be sitting on it either.

A Bebop Dominant scale has a major 3rd.
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8 is a Natural Minor scale and plain and simple will sound like ass over a Maj or Dom7 chord. If you're going to use a b3 as a passing note you still want to be thinking major 3rd. Until you understand this thoroughly it's a good idea at a jam to use the same 3rd everyone else is. Playing wrong 3rds will make you unpopular fast.

[MattP]

The key phrase I took from your post was "it sounded cool to me." Generally the b3 clashes against the M3 in a dominant or major chord. However when it's used to create the right amount of tension, and resolved properly, it can sound cool.

Some people confuse music theory with music "laws". I think it's important to know theory because it offers guidelines that generally sound good. However sometimes playing a b3 against a major chord is the best note to play. And, although theory says otherwise, we've all heard bass lines that stick to the root and sound terrible.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by MattP

Some people confuse music theory with music "laws". I think it's important to know theory because it offers guidelines that generally sound good.

Learn the rules thoroughly before you ignore them.

However sometimes playing a b3 against a major chord is the best note to play.

At a BLUES JAM? Get real.

[Schlyder]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

A Bebop Dominant scale has a major 3rd.
1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7 8 is a Natural Minor scale and plain and simple will sound like ass over a Maj or Dom7 chord. If you're going to use a b3 as a passing note you still want to be thinking major 3rd. Until you understand this thoroughly it's a good idea at a jam to use the same 3rd everyone else is. Playing wrong 3rds will make you unpopular fast.

Yes, thanks for catching that.... somehow when I read that post, I thought I saw he was also using the major 3rd and major 6th. It was a late night :P.
But yes .. that is a straight minor scale. And the b3 in it will sound like crap against the major 3rd of the chord.

[azureblue]

major and minor 3rds, 4ths, 5 and b5, 6th and b7, sometimes a b6, depending on the melody. They all work, just listen, especially if the guitar player is doling out pentatonics and bending notes right and left. Try walking down, hit the b3, then bend it up a little before hitting the root.

[FretlessMainly]

Originally Posted by jeff arddun

At a BLUES JAM? Get real.

If you think of it as a #9 (#2) it works fine:

1 #2 3 4 #4 5 6 b7 8.

It's important to retain the true dom7 identity, so you don't replace the natural 3rd with a b3rd, you replace the 2 with a #2. Or you can even keep the natural 2 and add the #2. I would also argue that a natural 7th will work over a Dom7 chord, but a b7 doesn't work over a Maj7 chord, so your most expanded scale would be:

1 2 #2 3 4 #4 5 6 b7 7 8

I wouldn't over use the #2, #4 or nat 7th (they may fit best in the higher registers), but the #2 and the #4 are blue notes, and it's the blues (and the nat 7 is the leading tone). Think Straight, No Chaser.

[anonymous122511]

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

If you think of it as a #9 (#2) it works fine:

1 #2 3 4 #4 5 6 b7 8.

It's important to retain the true dom7 identity, so you don't replace the natural 3rd with a b3rd, you replace the 2 with a #2. Or you can even keep the natural 2 and add the #2.

Yes.
It's extremely important to make clear that enharmonic notes can function very differently. A #2 can sound great over a Dom7 where a b3 will sound awful. Differentiating between a #2 and a b3 is the key to understanding the difference between playing a blue note and playing a wrong note. Intent is everything.

[SLaPiNFuNK]

I have a feeling the bass player was "walking" with a "Blues Scale" and not thinking he was walking Minor over Dom7...