Walking over changes??!!PLEASE HELP!!

JuStLiKeHeAvEn · #1 07-27-2005, 08:34 PM

I'm in a desperate situation so any help would be GREATLY appreciated!Can anyone tell me how to walk over Ebmaj7 for 2 measures, then Bbmi7 for 1, Eb7 for 1, Abmaj7 for 2 Abmin7 for one, Db7 for 1, Ebmaj7 for one, F#mi7/B7, Fmin7 for one, Bb7 for one, Ebmaj7 for one,F#mi7/B7,Fmin7 for one,Bb7 for one, Gmi7 for one,F#mi7/B7,Ebmaj7 for 2. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE!!!Help
Thanks

Phil Smith · #2 07-27-2005, 09:23 PM

Since you're in dire need, try this:

Play the root, 2nd, 3rd and 5th of each of the chords you listed. You will need to know of course what notes make up the chords listed. This will put you in the ball park and give you a framework in which to work. Some other time hopefully you can study this and create your own lines.

JuStLiKeHeAvEn · #3 07-27-2005, 09:57 PM

you rock

Ed Fuqua · #4 07-28-2005, 09:40 AM

FOUR, anyone?

leanne · #5 08-02-2005, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

FOUR, anyone?

& More!

To the orginal poster: (in my opinion, at least) if you're gonna fake your walking, it will be obvious that you don't know what you're doing, at least to the people you are playing with. Once you learn, it won't matter much what the changes are, because you will understand the concept better...

geoffkhan · #6 08-02-2005, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JuStLiKeHeAvEn

I'm in a desperate situation so any help would be GREATLY appreciated!Can anyone tell me how to walk over Ebmaj7 for 2 measures, then Bbmi7 for 1, Eb7 for 1, Abmaj7 for 2 Abmin7 for one, Db7 for 1, Ebmaj7 for one, F#mi7/B7, Fmin7 for one, Bb7 for one, Ebmaj7 for one,F#mi7/B7,Fmin7 for one,Bb7 for one, Gmi7 for one,F#mi7/B7,Ebmaj7 for 2. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE!!!Help
Thanks

Think mostly scale tones. You can also use passing tones to go smoothly into new chords.

Also think rhythms, too. Traditional walking bass is generally quarter notes, but try adding a low open string or mute note in between the quarter notes. Also try playing triplets (try using chord tones as note choices for triplets) every once and a while.

To me walking bass is more about the feel rather than the notes you play.

Ed Fuqua · #7 08-02-2005, 10:36 AM

DEAFCON - I have to disagree. Playing a walking bass line is about moving the harmony forward and, if you are playing a quarter note line, the thing that moves the harmony forward is NOTE CHOICE. You can play all the triplets, ghosts, pickups, anticipations, rakes etc. that you want, but if you can't make a line of simple quarter notes swing by choosing notes that lead logically to the next change and the next and the next ad infinitum, you haven't a hope in hell of making a line swing by adding more crap to it.

**Pacman** · #8 08-02-2005, 10:56 AM

Amen, Ed, Amen.

jazzbo · #9 08-02-2005, 11:43 AM

But ... on the other hand ...

While moving said harmony forward, if it the rhythm, and the feel isn't there ...

I think I guy named Duke said, "It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that swing."

One can spend their whole life discussing and arguing harmony, lamenting over every note that's always played. There is so much to consider. Personally, I've gotten so bogged down in note choice so often and so much, that I can't see the forest for the trees. There's a balance there. The way I practice, rhythm, feel, the 2 and the 4, these things come before note choice. Does this mean that note choice is not important? Of course not. Does this mean that rhythm is all their is? No. Do I like to ask myself questions, then answer them? Certainly.

So while I acknowledge Ed and Jon, and agree as I can, I think that KHAN!!!! has a valid point. And not necessarily in the idea of open strings, muted notes, triplets, or "tricks" perse, but rather in acknowledging how important the rhythm and feel is to a walking bass line. Particularly for a beginner.

**Pacman** · #10 08-02-2005, 04:16 PM

Hey, don't misunderstand me, swing is it - my amen was for the advice not to get bogged down by all the 'window dressing' (rakes, triplets, etc) and miss getting 4 notes to swing.

Ed Fuqua · #11 08-03-2005, 09:17 AM

JBO - I feel your pain, but take it from me, I BEEN coming from a place where I'm just sticking any note in, cause I heard so and so said "Notes don't matter, rhythm matters" or "if you play it with a good feel, it doesn't matter what notes you play".

But think about this, you got two guys playing quarter notes. How is one going to be more "rhythmic" than the other? How is one going "feel" different than the other? What I am finding is that one line is going to "swing" more than the other because it will move the harmony forward, not nail the harmony to a specific place. You have to be able to "hear" where that line is going, what notes are unfolding, where you are pointing at and what notes support that direction.

It's not about being "bogged down" or "lamenting". If I am hearing what I want to say in the context of the piece, that's what I play. If I am not, then I have to simplify what I want to say until I hear the more complex ideas with enough clarity to play them.

I'd talk with your teacher about this, it seems to me you are a little misdirected on this...

Bruce Lindfield · #12 08-03-2005, 09:35 AM

'Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity. '
Charles Mingus

Phil Smith · #13 08-03-2005, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

But think about this, you got two guys playing quarter notes. How is one going to be more "rhythmic" than the other? How is one going "feel" different than the other? What I am finding is that one line is going to "swing" more than the other because it will move the harmony forward, not nail the harmony to a specific place. You have to be able to "hear" where that line is going, what notes are unfolding, where you are pointing at and what notes support that direction.

All quarter notes are not created equally.

The rhythmic difference lies in the attack and whether the player is pushing the beat or is behind it.

Ed, what's moving the harmony forward and what's not? I'm asking this question because a lot of people that my be reading this thread are probably asking that themselves. Let's take the first A or 8 bars of "Autumn Leaves" as an example...

| Amin7 | D7 | GMaj7 | CMaj7 | F#-7b5 | B7 | Emin7 | Emin7 |

If I play the root, 2nd, 3rd and 5th of all of these chords in each instance I'm a whole step or half step away from the root of the next chord. Not really all that imaginative, but played with good time, you could sound like you know what you're doing. A variation of this would be to play root 2nd, 3rd and 5th of one chord acending and root 7th, 6th and 5th of the next chord descending and keep alternating.

From my own experience just knowing this when I started out would have saved me some time even though it's by the numbers it does allow me to hear something that sounds like what I need to be doing. Sure I need to know why it works so that I can take that knowledge and apply it to create my own variation that work, but you have to start somewhere.

Ed Fuqua · #14 08-03-2005, 11:50 AM

Shade all you want, the guy whose line makes sense cause he's hearing it as a gestalt from the first note to the last is gonna swing more than all the "on front of the beat" that you want to play.

Sure, we all had to start somewhere. Generally, that was with "I want to sound like I can play." I'm finding more and more that if I personally had started with "I want to play" I would be a lot farther along in my development now. Cause that's it really, now or later. At some point everything that got you "sounding like" you could play stands as an impediment to further and deeper development. As someone who is involved in the "later" aspect of trying to deal with this, I become more and more an advocate of the "now" perspective...

**WillPlay4Food** · #15 08-03-2005, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Shade all you want, the guy whose line makes sense cause he's hearing it as a gestalt from the first note to the last is gonna swing more than all the "on front of the beat" that you want to play.

Sure, we all had to start somewhere. Generally, that was with "I want to sound like I can play." I'm finding more and more that if I personally had started with "I want to play" I would be a lot farther along in my development now. Cause that's it really, now or later. At some point everything that got you "sounding like" you could play stands as an impediment to further and deeper development. As someone who is involved in the "later" aspect of trying to deal with this, I become more and more an advocate of the "now" perspective...

I wish I could take lessons with you. I mean that with the most respect.

To clarify, I feel like I've been learning how to conjugate musical verbs, like playing R-3-5-A for each chord for instance. I feel like I've spent time learning the 'basic rules' of music like everyone learns the basic rules of language (I am, you are, he is, she is, they are -- R-3-5, 3-5-R, 5-R-3, R-3-5-7, etc.) but I've been so focused on learning these rules (which obviously have their place) that I sound like everyone else who knows these rules. I haven't developed my own voice on the bass because I've been wanting to learn all these cool scales, modes, inversions, etc., so I can sound schooled on the bass. It's like not seeing the forest for the trees. I keep going up to each tree, analyzing it, practicing it, but never taking the time to flow through the forest, interplay with the birds and other woodland creatures who are making their music as well.

Probably sounds pretty corny but it's like a lightbulb just came on or something.

fraublugher · #16 08-03-2005, 03:12 PM

remember not to panic and take solace in 2/5 progressions , you can ALMOST play anything in a 2/5 .
and remember good music is memorized music ideally.

Zebra · #17 08-03-2005, 03:26 PM

Anyone gonna tell this guy some basic walking bass?
Crash course: First off, make sure you start each measure with the root of the chord. Play in quarter notes-- at least for now. With the rest of the bar, you can fill it with two basic approaches: the arpeggios or the scale approach. With the arpeggio approach, just play notes on the arpeggio of that chord, same thing with the scale approach, only play notes on the scale of that chord. Now, perhaps the most critical element of the walking bassline, which no one seems to have mentioned, is the approach note. The approach note doesn't have to be in any scale or key. It is a note an interval (usually a half step, whole step, or fifth) up or down from the root of the next chord. So how do those bars fill out? First note: root. Second and third notes: notes from the scale or apeggio of the chord. Fourth note: a note a half step, whole step, or fifth away from the root of the next chord. That's your basic walking bass.

Phil Smith · #18 08-03-2005, 03:30 PM

Have you read any of this thread? Like the first response???

tkarter · #19 08-03-2005, 03:48 PM

just singing up to learn. also a question

Shouldn't that be a flat 3rd over the minors?

tk

Bruce Lindfield · #20 08-04-2005, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

Ed, what's moving the harmony forward and what's not? I'm asking this question because a lot of people that my be reading this thread are probably asking that themselves. Let's take the first A or 8 bars of "Autumn Leaves" as an example...

| Amin7 | D7 | GMaj7 | CMaj7 | F#-7b5 | B7 | Emin7 | Emin7 |

If I play the root, 2nd, 3rd and 5th of all of these chords in each instance I'm a whole step or half step away from the root of the next chord. Not really all that imaginative, but played with good time, you could sound like you know what you're doing.

But then, on the next tune, somebody says : "let's make it easy - Blues in F" and the approach you described there, is going to sound very "stilted".... at best!