want to learn jazz

bareass · #1 12-13-2010, 01:52 PM

Hey all.
I've been toying with the idea of going back to school to take jazz. But i'm realizing i will never make it through the auditions.

i haven't read in a long time, and never really played jazz.

i'm wondering if you guys can suggest some books or site to look up/purchase. i know the real book is the standard, but with so many different versions i'm not sure which to buy, or which is which.

i would like to find stuff with the written bass lines, as well as the chords. or would i be better off with the melody lines to help with my inprove as well?

any suggestions would be great
thanks

p.s yes i searched!

a_magg · #2 12-13-2010, 01:59 PM

Listening to albums is obviously a great start to understanding how bassists use walking lines, but I don't want to be 'that guy' and simply suggest that.

Go check out Rufus Reid's The Evolving Bassist. Really great way to get a fundamental idea of working with changes. All standard notation, so no cheating with tabs

haha

Hope this helps.

**251** · #3 12-13-2010, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareass

Hey all.
I've been toying with the idea of going back to school to take jazz. But i'm realizing i will never make it through the auditions.

i haven't read in a long time, and never really played jazz.

i'm wondering if you guys can suggest some books or site to look up/purchase. i know the real book is the standard, but with so many different versions i'm not sure which to buy, or which is which.

i would like to find stuff with the written bass lines, as well as the chords. or would i be better off with the melody lines to help with my inprove as well?

any suggestions would be great
thanks

p.s yes i searched!

This very good background information;
http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...re_Code=JAJAZZ

If you can find ensemble music lessons & a music tutor, you can prepare for auditions all at once. Is anything like that available where you live, now?

J. Montgomery · #4 12-13-2010, 02:33 PM

This is THE Real Book that people are referring to:

It used to be illegal, but you can now buy legit copies from Hal Leonard. Its available on Amazon.com and everywhere else. I have the bass clef version. If you can read treble clef, then the 'C' version is fine.

Just to clarify, the bass clef version does not have written out bass lines. The melodies are written in bass clef instead of treble clef. The Real Book contains melodies and chord changes, everything else in between is up to you

kraigo · #5 12-13-2010, 02:47 PM

While I am actually interested in responses, I can't let this go by without the obligatory "put on a beret, drink red wine and smoke those funny cigarettes" comment.

KO

J. Montgomery · #6 12-13-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraigo

"put on a beret, drink red wine and smoke those funny cigarettes" comment.

Thats a good start, but you really need to start doing heroin if you want to get anywhere with jazz.

SJan3 · #7 12-13-2010, 02:53 PM

I agree with listening. You really have to acclimate your ears to some very specific sounds that you don't typically hear in the Pop world. Pick up a book on Bebop Bass lines. Learn to walk around changes and, when possible, learn melodies. A great place to start improvising is by varying the melody.

Blueszilla · #8 12-13-2010, 03:02 PM

IMO/IME nothing beats playing. Start playing with someone and learn as many tunes as you can. I've been a blues player most of my adult life, but about 8 years ago started playing standards and jazz in a duo, sometimes trio, format with a guy who works regularly, he plays guitar and piano and sings. I've since learned a ton of tunes, dusted off my chart reading skills (school was a long time ago) and learned to dig a lot of material I once thought of as 'elevator muzak'. I've been taking some lessons for a year or so, but nothing makes up for learning tunes. You begin to see recurring themes in changes when you learn a lot of material and that's when all the theory you learn begins to have some practical application. No substitute for putting in the time to learn.

bareass · #9 12-14-2010, 06:47 AM

that's just it blueszilla, but i want to learn the songs right. i don't want to learn the chord changes by ear and get something close to the bass line. i want to read the charts, and learn the notes of the walking line or melody, and how they fit in the chord.

as for the books, is there any that have written out bass lines to standards, or good books to learn something beyond simple walking lines? i guess the melodies would help with improve, so it might be worth having the real book for that reason.

cybersnyder · #10 12-14-2010, 06:51 AM

Check out bassbooks.com. They usually have a few pages in pdf format to allow you to see how the music is written. I don't think you'll find a lot of TAB for jazz music. ;-)

I thought the beret was replaced with the backwards Kangol cabbie hat, no?

Probably the best thing is get some lessons with a local bassist that plays jazz and get a jam group together. You grow by leaps and bounds when you're playing with a group. Every screw up is a lesson in what not to do and what you're left with after the screw up starts to sound good.

HeadyVan Halen · #11 12-14-2010, 06:59 AM

Ron Carter book on "Building Walking Basslines'...He was pretty good.

And it comes with a CD.

Done.

dalkowski · #12 12-14-2010, 07:01 AM

As I've aged, I've done less well self-teaching. Where jazz is concerned, I needed a teacher to get me there. When I told him my goals (similar to the OP), he listened to me play, learned about about what i already knew, then created a curriculum (chords/chord tones, scales, modes, walking, Real Book etc.) that helped me get to the point where I can acquit myself reasonably well.

Good luck!

AuntieBeeb · #13 12-14-2010, 07:01 AM

I'm with Blueszilla on this one - I guess I've had the luxury of plenty of time, but I joined a (very amateurish) jazz band about seven years ago and the two remaining original members (the violinist and me) have basically learnt to play jazz together. We're not playing to a professional standard, but at least it now sounds like 'jazz.'

The little epiphanies I had on the way were:
1. Can you play a typical blues walking bassline? You won't get away with just playing that over each chord for very long, but it's very helpful if you understand where those notes come from and why they're 'strong.' Plus it gives you some shapes to work from.
2. How good's your theory? If the chord sheet says 'Dm7b5,' for example, would you know which notes that comprises? Make sure you know that because those notes will suggest what you could safely incorporate into your walk.
3. This is not rock, pop, blues or country. You don't have to "anchor" each chord change by playing the root note where the change happens - if anything, it often sounds better if you can make your walk sound like it's just plodding along independently of everything else, and just flowing effortlessly between notes. If you come to a change and the preceding note is closer to the fifth of the new chord than the root, go for the fifth. Hell, go for the third if you're feeling confident. If you're comfortable with the notes that the chords have in common, you can work the change in whenever you feel like it.
4. There's more to jazz bass than walking lines. But it's a good place to start!

I don't know if this will be any help or not. Apologies if just seems like the ravings of a madman...

bareass · #14 12-14-2010, 07:27 AM

i should clariy, i've been playing in bands for over 10 years now. i've done musicals in pit bands. i know a little more then basic theory (chords and how they are formed). i can read notation and chord charts. if i have a chord chart infront of me i can play to the song, so long as it is not jazz! i can play basic blues walking lines.

i'm looking to expand all of that. I'm looking to find books that will have the bass lines written or books that will show me how to build, more complex walking lines. i can get by on playing the standard 135 and a 7 if need be, but want to play more. i've done the teacher thing for years, and gotten just about as far as i can go in this city. so the rest is up to me.

thanks for all your help so far guys, lets keep this going, this is turning into a great information place for me and anyone who comes across this thread!

i should also note that i get bored really easily, so i need a bit of a chanllenge!

**251** · #15 12-14-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareass

i should clariy, i've been playing in bands for over 10 years now. i've done musicals in pit bands. i know a little more then basic theory (chords and how they are formed). i can read notation and chord charts. if i have a chord chart infront of me i can play to the song, so long as it is not jazz! i can play basic blues walking lines.

i'm looking to expand all of that. I'm looking to find books that will have the bass lines written or books that will show me how to build, more complex walking lines. i can get by on playing the standard 135 and a 7 if need be, but want to play more. i've done the teacher thing for years, and gotten just about as far as i can go in this city. so the rest is up to me.

thanks for all your help so far guys, lets keep this going, this is turning into a great information place for me and anyone who comes across this thread!

i should also note that i get bored really easily, so i need a bit of a chanllenge!

My bad. I thought you were starting at square one. Look at the Aebersold books again. Volume 54, Maiden Voyage has both Play-a-long CD & written Bassline supplement. There are other Aebersold volumes with CD basslines transcribed for study. You may need to search to find them.

There are transcriptions of basslines by Paul Chambers, Ray Brown & Percy Heath here; http://www.jazzeducationdatabase.com/

Likewise transcripts of Larry Grenadier & Ray Brown solos here; http://www.ranulamusic.com/live/

Take a look at Lucas Pickford's site. He always has something interesting + his transcription tab will test you in many ways.

Ed Fuqua · #16 12-14-2010, 08:50 AM

I'd like to suggest this, that and the other thing (look at post #8)....

Bass4Gsus · #17 12-14-2010, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareass

i should clariy, i've been playing in bands for over 10 years now. i've done musicals in pit bands. i know a little more then basic theory (chords and how they are formed). i can read notation and chord charts. if i have a chord chart infront of me i can play to the song, so long as it is not jazz! i can play basic blues walking lines.

i'm looking to expand all of that. I'm looking to find books that will have the bass lines written or books that will show me how to build, more complex walking lines. i can get by on playing the standard 135 and a 7 if need be, but want to play more. i've done the teacher thing for years, and gotten just about as far as i can go in this city. so the rest is up to me.

thanks for all your help so far guys, lets keep this going, this is turning into a great information place for me and anyone who comes across this thread!

i should also note that i get bored really easily, so i need a bit of a chanllenge!

Check Out from Jamey Abersold VOLUME 1 - HOW TO PLAY JAZZ & IMPROVISE.

http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...ry_Code=AEBPLA

There is a companion book with the transcription of Rufus Reid's bass lines from V1 and V3

http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...ry_Code=AEBPLA

The entire series will give you the people to play with to work through your studies. Many other volumes also have separate bass transcriptions. You can drop the left channel and cut the bass out. The whole site is an amazing resource.

I also found Building Walking Bass Lines by Ed Friedland to be very good, and there is a thread here about the book that Ed participates in. The book has 10 standards at the end, and Ed explained that after learning each new concept you should work that through each standard. By going through this you begin to internalize the changes, that has been one of those "moments" for me.

After spending a lot of time working through the standards in Ed's book, BWBL's (and I'm still early in the book) I have gone back to the Rufus Reid's transcriptions and see them in a whole new light already.

Also consider The Jazz Theory Book by Mark Levine.

http://www.jazzbooks.com/mm5/merchan...ry_Code=THEBOO

Hope this helps

Blueszilla · #18 12-14-2010, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareass

that's just it blueszilla, but i want to learn the songs right. i don't want to learn the chord changes by ear and get something close to the bass line. i want to read the charts, and learn the notes of the walking line or melody, and how they fit in the chord.

as for the books, is there any that have written out bass lines to standards, or good books to learn something beyond simple walking lines? i guess the melodies would help with improve, so it might be worth having the real book for that reason.

I'm not suggesting you learn any other way.

What Ed referenced is very useful, shameless plugs notwithstanding

. I am subbed to his thread about really learning a tune, the second link in his post. At first it's a bit daunting, but you do it a few times, and what you learn you can apply to any tune, whether your learning or writing songs. The effect is your view becomes much broader and the implications more profound. In my case, I got more relaxed and began looking ahead to the point of seeing the set of changes as a whole, the 'flavor' of a song or rhythm. It makes tunes more fun to play when you get a sense of the whole thing musically, rather than just 'this scale goes with these changes'. I've found I play less, but more in step with the whole, if you know what I mean.

The realbooks are a great resource and not too expensive, especially on CD.

If you want to learn anything, IMO, the best is to just start doing it. Work hard and put in the time. 'Learning jazz' is a never ending journey, as I suppose everything is, so good luck and have fun.

Edit: I don't mean to imply anything about your education or skill level. Hell, your background is deeper than mine. I would think you are very close to your goals, given your training and experience. If you can read a blues chart, you can do the same with jazz.

Bass4Gsus · #19 12-14-2010, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I'd like to suggest this, that and the other thing (look at post #8)....

Ed's book is also good, and I am working through that also, and the second link on how to learn a tune is something I am attempting. It's allot of work and as time goes on it gets easier.