Waste of time

[peaveyuser]

I recently had the pleasure to talk to someone about music and bass playing in general.

She was a bass player too.

Anyways she asked me what music I play, and I told her metal, classic rock and some jazz. I also noted that I'm going into college for jazz bass (I know I may mention this quite a bit on this forum, not as much as fassa's shergold though)


Anyways i aske her what she plays, she says jazz and classical. And then quickly said everything else is a waste of time, dismissing it all. In her own words you can only be a real musician if you play those genres.

I told I think that was close minded and that I like to play as much as I can and broaden my musical flexibility. I think the best musicians can adapt to anything, and I think respect is due to other genres.

She said I was wasting my time with this and that all the best musicians are from jazz players. She said copy them and practise their stuff only, everything else is a waste of time.

I don't know to say the least maybe i got a bit offended since I'm a big rock and metal fan and look up to those players a lot too. But I still stood up for it saying music is a feeling and a drive, in the end its art and its about what makes me and other people happy. I love playing metal and rock, same as jazz and blues, i think they all have their place.

Albeit the person in question here will probably be a phenomenal basssist due to the practise schedule and knowledge she will gain. I just think with this attitude some musicians could be missing out on a lot of growing and fun.

Let me ask about your thoughts on this? I think the best modern musicians will not overlook anything, hell I see a lot of respect for jazz players by the better metal and rock musicians, same as i see some jazz player incorporating some heavy raw playing to their music or giving it a rock vibe.

I personally also think music shouldn't be math, theory and such should only aid, not limit your expression

[RobinBetton]

looks like you have your head on straight

Originally Posted by peaveyuser

I recently had the pleasure to talk to someone about music and bass playing in general.

She was a bass player too.

Anyways she asked me what music I play, and I told her metal, classic rock and some jazz. I also noted that I'm going into college for jazz bass (I know I may mention this quite a bit on this forum, not as much as fassa's shergold though)


Anyways i aske her what she plays, she says jazz and classical. And then quickly said everything else is a waste of time, dismissing it all. In her own words you can only be a real musician if you play those genres.

I told I think that was close minded and that I like to play as much as I can and broaden my musical flexibility. I think the best musicians can adapt to anything, and I think respect is due to other genres.

She said I was wasting my time with this and that all the best musicians are from jazz players. She said copy them and practise their stuff only, everything else is a waste of time.

I don't know to say the least maybe a bit offended since I'm a big rock and metal fan and look up to those players a lot too. But I still stood up for it saying music is a feeling and a drive, in the end its art and its about what makes me and other people happy. I love playing metal and rock, same as jazz and blues, i think they all have their place.

Albeit the person in question here will probably be a phenomenal basssist due to the practise schedule and knowledge she will gain. I just think with this attitude some musicians could be missing out on a lot of growing and fun.

Let me ask about your thoughts on this? I think the best modern musicians will not overlook anything, hell I see a lot of respect for jazz players by the better metal and rock musicians, same as i see some jazz player incorporating some heavy raw playing to their music or giving it a rock vibe.

I personally also think music shouldn't be math, theory and such should only aid, not limit your expression

[dangerkirk]

Originally Posted by peaveyuser

music shouldn't be math, theory and such should only aid, not limit your expression

amen

[mrokern]

If your college music program is anything like mine was, you're going to run into a lot of music snobbishness (no, I didn't go for bass, but music snobs are music snobs).

Most of it is from people who have just starting seriously listening to a genre for the first time and have been convinced (often partly by a teacher's comments taken out of context) that theirs is the one, true path to musical enlightenment. Ignore it. They'll outgrow it...seems you already have done so. Just ask one of the "jazzers" to play some Rush or Dream Theater, pop some popcorn, and enjoy the fun (nothing against jazz players, mind you...just the folks with the "jazz-only" mindset).

As for me...I'll set my iPod on "shuffle", thank you very much.

-Mark

[theunknowndude]

+1 to opening your mind to everything and playing what makes you happy

I used to ONLY play the predefined jazz / rock stuff at high school for the music curriculum,... it pretty much put me off music,... playing all the things I want when I started getting lessons and listeninig to metal/rock/jazz/country etc now has made me more aware of the beauty in music!

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

Originally Posted by peaveyuser

I think respect is due to other genres.

in the end its art and its about what makes me and other people happy.

I just think with this attitude some musicians could be missing out on a lot of growing and fun.


I personally also think music shouldn't be math, theory and such should only aid, not limit your expression

That's some seriously wise statements there, and I couldn't agree more.

With any instrument as versatile as bass, you're not going to want to limit yourself to one style and bother only playing that. Versatility is one of the best things about bassists, some dedicated bassists might not know the theory, technique and history behind a specific genre of music but most all of us can groove and hold our own just fine in many different genres.

I wonder what she has to say about funk? Jazz bass is cool and all, but funk has so much flavor that I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to at least attempt some of that greasy, soulful goodness

[peaveyuser]

Originally Posted by Mr_Sore_Fingerz

That's some seriously wise statements there, and I couldn't agree more.

With any instrument as versatile as bass, you're not going to want to limit yourself to one style and bother only playing that. Versatility is one of the best things about bassists, some dedicated bassists might not know the theory, technique and history behind a specific genre of music but most all of us can groove and hold our own just fine in many different genres.

I wonder what she has to say about funk? Jazz bass is cool and all, but funk has so much flavor that I don't see why anyone wouldn't want to at least attempt some of that greasy, soulful goodness

Oh man this is why I love bass, i play in a metal band but I love me some good funky bass lines. Its just so fun. I can't even slap well, but i love laying down some serious fingerstyle groove.

Then 30 secs later when the singer yells at me I'll play 100000000 notes per second while playing to some double bass drum

from classic to metal, to jazz to rock to prog to blues. Its all so fun, just matters your mood.

[slaerts]

She is stating an opinion as if it was a fact. Probably because she believes her opinion so strongly that it is fact to her. Someone could make the same argument about country and western or blues. Like somenone else said, in a few years she will outgrow her opinions and broaden her horizons, or become a university lecturer on jazz bass and remain stagnated and insulated in her ivory tower for the rest of her life. A musician must be open to all styles of music, sadly even to country and western.

[JimmyM]

I think you two should hook up.

Don't sweat what other people think. Rock musicians will never get the respect of jazz snobs. And who cares? Theyre jazz snobs.

[theunknowndude]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I think you two should hook up.

Don't sweat what other people think. Rock musicians will never get the respect of jazz snobs. And who cares? Theyre jazz snobs.

hahahaha
my life is now complete knowing this

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by peaveyuser

I personally also think music shouldn't be math, theory and such should only aid, not limit your expression

I can't think of one instance that the understanding of theory could possibly limit someone's expression. In fact, it really can only enhance one's expression.

[bassforce]

Yup, to break the rules you must know the rules

[Roadman]

Diversity is good.

The more styles you are comfortable with, the more tricks you have in your bag to bring to whatever you are playing at the time.

Why would anyone want to limit them self intentionally? I don't get it.

[Arpeggiator]

she may be a phenominal bass player but who will get more work if either decides to start sessioning? or even on a local circuit i can tell you there will be more rock bands than jazz bands

i play the same sort of things you do (and like to mix jazz and metal ) and iv come across many people like her: wont take anything on board other than one or 2 styles, and they will be convinced you are "wasting your time" no music is a waste of time really since it all helps mould the player your are becoming or have become.

[andybb1500]

Originally Posted by Arpeggiator

i play the same sort of things you do (and like to mix jazz and metal ) and iv come across many people like her: wont take anything on board other than one or 2 styles, and they will be convinced you are "wasting your time" no music is a waste of time really since it all helps mould the player your are becoming or have become.

how about Fallout Boy?

[peaveyuser]

Originally Posted by Pacman

I can't think of one instance that the understanding of theory could possibly limit someone's expression. In fact, it really can only enhance one's expression.

I've heard of some but its all a way i think people look at it in a big picture. There is a reason I said limit and although you are right too I meant it different. Because there are some things that aren't "right" theory wise that sound great, I'm kind of saying once you look at your instrument as a puzzle that you have to solve with all these progressions, scales, modes etc... then you might be losing some feel in which you get when you look at the instrument as an instrument and just go in there by soul. But of course whats best is to know theory anyways because most of the time it will be right on target and if your improvising and know ahead of time what will sound great that is best


Get what I'm saying? I don't know hard to explain over typed words

[bassrique]

Was she hot?

[peaveyuser]

Originally Posted by bassrique

Was she hot?

hahahah, of course on TB the moment I mention "she" people will ask this.


I was just lazy and didn't want to type "the person" through the whole thread, albeit that would keep this thread on topic

[undeadbass]

I couldn't agree more with this thread. I'm a bassist who outright refuses to limit my styles - I've played everything from fusion, big band, and bebop to rock, punk, and death metal, to soul, hip-hop, and funk, to reggae, latin jazz, and klesmer... well, you get the idea. I've had an immense amount of fun on all these gigs, and made sure to learn something from each one. When I run into a snob telling me I'm wasting my time playing a certain kind of music, I just pull out my gig schedule. That pretty much shuts them up.

Originally Posted by bassforce

Yup, to break the rules you must know the rules

That was the best piece of advice I received from my AP Music Theory teacher when I was in high school - he pretty much started the course with it! (saying something along the lines of "I'm going to teach you these rules, and if you don't bend or outright break them, then you haven't been listening to me.") At least once a week or more, he'd pull out some really experimental stuff and discuss why it's great music - such as 4 minutes and 33 seconds (of silence).

[chrose1201]

Sounds to me like someone is focusing more on little black dots than what those little black dots represent. Perhaps jazz and classical are better "schooled" and therefore more knowledgable as to the little black dots and the theory, but that doesn't neccessarily make them better musicians or give them any heart and soul in their music. I have known many that could play just about anything you put in front of them albeit very sterile. Ask them to improvise though and you would think you just asked them to take over the controls of a flying 747. Looks of shock and horror. As my son started to get into music and had his likes and dislikes I always told him to listen to everything. He doesn't have to like it or buy the cd, but he has to recognize the musicality in it. Apparently this has worked because he really surprises me sometimes with what's on his Ipod along with his metal, some screamo, etc.
I always think though of what Sir George Martin one time said about Paul McCartney (Might not be exactly verbatim). Apparently they were sitting at a piano and Paul was trying to come up with a certain phrasing for a song and was having a hard time with it. Sir George said "Of course I could have shown him technically a hundred ways of doing what he was trying to do, but to watch him go through trial and error and eventually finding the perfect phrasing showed his true genius"!

Tell that to your "she" and see if she even knows Sir Paul or Sir George