Well, Time to learn Theory...

[skiscem]

Hi everybody!

I have been playing bass for many years, and never really care about music theory, im always more worried about gear...
I played with numerous bands, but very simple stuff and never "needed" to know anything special besides how to hit the right note

Now i really want to learn, i started practicing the major scale and getting to know the fretboard but besides that i know nothing.

I just want an advice, where to start, good methods, what songs to play, everything you can tell me that can help me. and please remember, i know nothing... i need some easy to understand ways to learn

im very open minded and i want to play any kind of songs that is going to open new doors to improve my level.

Thanks

[Jon_West]

Best thing you can do (imo) is go to a music shop and buy a book on theory for bass (or whatever similar).
When I needed to learn how to play jazz, although I had a lot of theory background, I didn't know anything about notes, scales, or how to construct even simple walking lines on a bass. I got Ed Friedland's (the bass whisperer, holy crap, just realizing that now) "Building Walking bass lines" and it really helped.

Good luck, and give it time. You wont regret learning it; you'll just kick yourself for not learning it sooner.

[sikamikanico]

get a teacher... it is helpful in so many ways! even if it's an hour a month, it's worth it...

[Stumbo]

You might want to take a look at the links in my sig. below for some great TB info on learning Theory and other good stuff.

Good luck.

[Zegie]

IMHO, and as newbie bass player, from the little I have learnt, music theory is music theory. Yes it does, obviously, have some relationship with the instrument of your choice - but the essentials apply to all - music theory is music theory.

I picked up a secondhand paperback by Otto Karolyi called Introducing Music. This explains theory from first priciples. I also happen to know that there is also a music for dummies book. I am sure there are lots of others. Google will help.

Personally I find it fascinating and consider it as all part of the musical journey.

Best of luck with your studies. Go for it!

[MalcolmAmos]

Originally Posted by skiscem

I just want an advice, where to start, good methods, what songs to play, everything you can tell me that can help me. and please remember, i know nothing... i need some easy to understand ways to learn

Where to start?

Understand how the Major scale is constructed. Why does the C major scale have no sharps or flats and the E major scale has 4 sharps, etc.

Next how the notes of the scale are used to produce the chords in a key, i.e. C scale notes are used to produce the chords in the key of C.

From there what chords like to move to what other chords, i.e. why does the ii and IV chord like to move to the V7 chord. About now would be a good time to understand the Nashville numbering system. Roman numbers (I, ii, iii, IV) are used to signify chords and Arabic numbers (1, 2, 3) are used to signify notes of the scale.

And then the Granddaddy of all "rules" that holds everything together; The melody line and the chords used under it should share some of the same notes. If they do the melody line and the chord progression are in harmony and sound good together, i.e. why do we have to change chords, well the melody has moved on to notes that no longer are found in the old chord - so it is time to find a chord that has some of the new melody notes in it's makeup. Yep, that's it. That is music theory in a nut shell. Google "how to harmonize a melody line".

Google and http://musictheory.net/ should answer most of your questions.

Good methods and what songs to play are really out of the realm of theory and move into personal taste and technique.

I do suggest you tackle this theory elephant in the order I gave above, i.e. first things first - scales and chords and how they work together. If you skip around between this and that you will keep running into stone walls. When you understand what is talked about above you will have questions and those questions will lead you to the rest of the story.

Good luck.

[Chris K]

From your post it's unclear if you can read music. IMHO it is best to start there. You could use any book or site on theory next to some book with written bass music you like to play. After that maybe some simple transcribing, bass lines and melodies to start with, harmonies later. This will trigger your studies on intervals, scales, chords etc. and be useful as well to create your own music. Beware of learning 'dry' theory only. You will only remember what you use repeatedly.

[itswac]

If you set out to learn the C Major scale up and down the entire neck of the bass, you will open the door to a lot of information. I suggest C Major since it has no accidentals (sharps or flats) making it easier to find yourself if you get stuck or lost.

Learn how to play the C Major scale from every point on the E-string:

F on the 1st fret
G on the 3rd fret
A on the 5th fret
B on the 7th fret
C on the 8th fret
D on the 10th fret
E on the 12th fret

Just remember, all the notes are whole steps (two frets apart) except for B-C and E-F (one fret apart).

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Chris K

From your post it's unclear if you can read music. IMHO it is best to start there. You could use any book or site on theory next to some book with written bass music you like to play. After that maybe some simple transcribing, bass lines and melodies to start with, harmonies later. This will trigger your studies on intervals, scales, chords etc. and be useful as well to create your own music. Beware of learning 'dry' theory only. You will only remember what you use repeatedly.

^^^ This.

Music theory is all done on paper. If you can't read you are just spinning your wheels.

[Lobster11]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Music theory is all done on paper. If you can't read you are just spinning your wheels.

I completely disagree. Music theory is all done in your head and on your instrument; notating it on paper is just a way of expressing and communicating about it in writing. Just like a "regular" language, it's much easier to learn it in spoken form than in written form, and you can learn it and put it to use for all kinds of purposes before ever learning to read. It's the ideas that matter, not the format.

Incidentally, I suspect that this is the kind of attitude that turns off a lot of players from learning theory -- e.g., teachers who insist that a student spend countless hours learning to read, memorizing every scale and every mode in every position, etc., before even beginning to talk about how to put any of this information to practical use to make music. You can learn a great deal about theory, before learning to read and write, in ways that are interesting and useful right away.

[JOE_MARSH]

DUDE!! Music theory rocks..I cant tell you how hard it is, cause everyone learns differently, BUT..I can tell you...that just knowing a few more things will completely turn your musical world rightside up again...FOR REAL...I bought Edly's Music Theory for Practical People-BY suggestion from people here on the bass forums, and it has completely taken me to a new level in music.. It explains everything, some concepts are hard to understand, but it just takes time..Im happy to say, over just the last month...Im practically a WIZ at most of this theory stuff now...

GET THE BOOK PLAYA ..you wont regret!

[JTE]

From an earlier post of mine (with thanks to mambo4 for creating the framework)...

---------------------------------------
THEORY PROGRESSION
---------------------------------------
Theory can seem like a quagmire to those who are starting out, and it's often difficult to know just how important a particular aspect of it is. I will say that learning how chords are built from scales is the most important aspect of theory. It is far more useful to understand chord construction than to memorize all those "Scales A and B go with chord X" formulas.

I'd say the logical progression learning music theory is this:

1.) Learn the major scale, and how it's constructed
2.) Learn how basic chords are built from the major scale- e.g Major is 1,3,5, minor is 1,b3, 5, etc.
3.) Learn how to harmonize the notes of any diatonic major scale by building chords / stacking thirds.
4.) Learn arppegios/chord tones
5.) Learn to look at common chord progressions as "numerals" (eg, I-IV-V ect) to understand how the chords relate to the song's key.
6.) Learn the Natural Minor scale (a/k/a Aeolian mode) and the dominant scale (a/k/a Mixolydian); And learn how these relate to the major scale (i.e.; its the V and vi mode)
7.) Understand how other 4 modes of the major scale are derived (less important to memorize these other modes at first)
8.) Dive back into modes for more detailed ideas about what "goes" with what chord.

Bass playing is basically a matter of knowing what to play over various chords. It may seem daunting at first, but my practical experience (bass in pop/rock) has been that I mostly use Major, Minor, and Dominant 7 related bassline patterns, usually based on chord tones and pentatonics. Even if you're playing some guitar oriented riff-rock, each riff is going to imply a chord of some kind.

"BUT HOW DO I APPLY THIS THEORY TO MY PLAYING?"
85%+ of the time, you will be going from root note to root note as the chords change. The trick is learning how to do it with a groove and feel that is stylistically appropriate to the song. The best way to reach stylistic understanding is to learn songs you like and pick them apart to see how the bassline relates to the chords. I cannot emphasize this idea enough: The answer to this common question is to LEARN AND ANALYZE BASS LINES BY THE MASTERS. Once you undertand what Jamerson (for example) did with a particular set of changes, these ideas become added to your tool set, to use, change, blend and create your own voice.

I highly recommend Edley's Music Theory for Practical People as well.
http://www.edly.com/mtfpp.html

John

[onlyclave]

Originally Posted by Lobster11

I completely disagree. Music theory is all done in your head and on your instrument; notating it on paper is just a way of expressing and communicating about it in writing. Just like a "regular" language, it's much easier to learn it in spoken form than in written form, and you can learn it and put it to use for all kinds of purposes before ever learning to read. It's the ideas that matter, not the format.

Incidentally, I suspect that this is the kind of attitude that turns off a lot of players from learning theory -- e.g., teachers who insist that a student spend countless hours learning to read, memorizing every scale and every mode in every position, etc., before even beginning to talk about how to put any of this information to practical use to make music. You can learn a great deal about theory, before learning to read and write, in ways that are interesting and useful right away.

Then you don't understand what music theory is. Music Theory is giving names to the sounds that we hear in music. It is instrument agnostic and nothing more than an analytical tool. Once you know the analyses of what you are hearing you can draw upon that to create new music because you know what algorithm to follow to reach a particular goal/sound.

Learning to play scales is not music theory. Learning to play arpeggios is not music theory. Thinking that "music theory" is the cure-all for better bass lines is incorrect. Music theory is all of those but it is mostly the analytical process of giving names to sounds so that two musicians can discuss the same thing and be on the same page. If I said the function of the Neopolitan 6th in the relative minor would you know what I'm talking about?

Incidentally I suspect the attitude that you don't have to read to learn music theory has resulted in many years of players thinking they have all the answers when all they've done is memorize some patterns for a mixolydian and pentatonic scale.

[Chris K]

+1
And on top of that: writing down music is the most refined way to visualize musical analysis as Onlyclave mentioned above. It has been shaped by centuries of experience.

Chord sheets or instrument-related ways of notation (like tabs) either give less info or cannot be transferred to other instruments easily.

I was asked to form a band for a special gig next month. Drums, percussion, bass, 2 guitars, keys, 3 horns, singer. Soul, jazz & funk mostly. This couldn't be done without written arrangements and musicians who playread like xxxx.

[Lobster11]

Originally Posted by onlyclave

Then you don't understand what music theory is. Music Theory is giving names to the sounds that we hear in music. It is instrument agnostic and nothing more than an analytical tool. Once you know the analyses of what you are hearing you can draw upon that to create new music because you know what algorithm to follow to reach a particular goal/sound.

Learning to play scales is not music theory. Learning to play arpeggios is not music theory. Thinking that "music theory" is the cure-all for better bass lines is incorrect. Music theory is all of those but it is mostly the analytical process of giving names to sounds so that two musicians can discuss the same thing and be on the same page. If I said the function of the Neopolitan 6th in the relative minor would you know what I'm talking about?

I understand and agree with all of this. I have to admit that you got me with "Neopolitan," but I would have known that the phrygian dominant scale is the 5th mode of the harmonic minor (and I use it in a song I play with my band).

We would be on the same side of most arguments about the importance and value of learning theory. My point is merely that you can learn an awful lot about it without learning to read first. And for someone just starting out to learn theory, I think it's better to learn the concepts first and start putting them to use as quickly as possible. Reading can come later when desired or needed.

Let me emphasize that I'm all for learning to read and write, and I certainly agree that there are many musical situations in which it is absolutely essential. I can't do it myself currently but would love to be able to. I'm not a professional player, and only have limited time to devote to music, so I've had to be selective about how to allocate my time. I've gotten a lot of bang for my buck in studying theory, sans reading, and found it immensely useful.