What are 5th and 7th and such?

beyondat · #1 07-12-2009, 08:58 AM

I've been playing bass for a little over a year and I hear bassists mention things like the root, 5th and the 7th. how do you know which note coincides with which number or does it change with the scale?

Lettlander · #2 07-12-2009, 09:23 AM

The root, 5th, and 7th correspond to notes in a scale.

Simply speaking - there are 8 notes in a scale. The "1" and the "8" are the same, but are an octave apart. This is what you call the "root". For example the "D" in a D major scale.

The 5th & 7th, are just that - the 5th & 7th notes of the scale...

Now, depending on the type of scale you're playing, things are going to start moving around between the 1 & the 8. This is directly related to the "flavor" of the scale i.e. major, minor, maj7, min7, diminished, etc.

This is the part where I suggest you pick up a basic music theory or bass instruction book - or better yet take some lessons!

Hope this helps...

vbasscustom · #3 07-12-2009, 09:25 AM

^ that

toomanybasses · #4 07-12-2009, 09:28 AM

If you have been playing for a year and are unsure about this, can I first say that this information is basic to bass playing so PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE take some lessons.

In the mean time, check out this page, it should help.

http://www.studybass.com/lessons/bass-chord-patterns/

beyondat · #5 07-12-2009, 10:13 AM

Thanks, you guys clarified a lot for me. I kind of figured out that they were notes in a scale but just needed some verification. What I still can't figure out is a cmaj7. I know what a cmaj is but I don't know what the added 7 does to it.

Lettlander · #6 07-12-2009, 10:43 AM

A Cmaj7 puts a 1/2 step between notes 7 & 8. This scale is also often times just referred to as a C major scale.

A C7 or "dominant 7th" places a whole step between 7 & 8.

J. Crawford · #7 07-12-2009, 10:44 AM

^This.

The Cmaj7 just has a flatted 7th, creating the half step.

BahamaBass · #8 07-12-2009, 03:27 PM

its based on a 7 note scale such as the major scale each note in the scale is a degree or think of it as simply a number. Say first note you play is "Do" which is #1 or the first degree and so on up to the octave which is #8.

if you play pentatonic scale (5 notes) you still refer to the numbering of the 7 note scale it is derived from. so in the pentatonic scale the 6 and 2 are removed from the 7 note scale so we end up with 5 notes. so you go from the root (#1 ....first note) > #3 > #4 > #5 > #7 to #8(the octave).

**Pacman** · #9 07-12-2009, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jordasch

^This.

The Cmaj7 just has a flatted 7th, creating the half step.

Try again.

BahamaBass · #10 07-12-2009, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

Try again.

he must mean Cmin7

phektus · #11 07-13-2009, 02:34 AM

Notes on the Major Scale:

1 - I - root/tonic - do - (key of ) C
2 - II - supertonic - re - D
3 - III - mediant - mi - E
4 - IV - subdominant - fa - F
5 - V - dominant - sol - G
6 - VI - submediant - la - A
7 - VII - leading note - ti - B
8 - VII - octave/tonic - do - C (cycle goes on again)

Now chord notes can be found in the major scale, so they are given their numerical equivalents most of the time. For example, a major chord is composed of I, III and V. A minor chord is composed of I, iii (flatted third) and V. And so on.

phektus · #12 07-13-2009, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamaBass

he must mean Cmin7

What he described is a C7, which has the flatted VII. If you take the VII as is, it's a Cmaj7. I think.

BahamaBass · #13 07-13-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phektus

What he described is a C7, which has the flatted VII. If you take the VII as is, it's a Cmaj7. I think.

oh yeah could be C7 as well.

7 as is...perfect 7 right?

Bruce Lindfield · #14 07-13-2009, 08:08 AM

C7 is a dominant 7th which has a flattened 7th note, making it a whole step/tone away from the octave.

Cmaj7 is a Major 7th which has a 7th note a semi-tone away from the octave.

**bassybill** · #15 07-13-2009, 08:15 AM

O. M. G.

I'm shocked by some of the "advice" given here.

OP - this page is worth a good read. Don't worry too much about learning it all off by heart, just get an overview of how things work.

http://library.thinkquest.org/15413/.../intervals.htm

totallybacan · #16 07-13-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamaBass

oh yeah could be C7 as well.

7 as is...perfect 7 right?

...There is no such thing as a perfect 7.

The only perfect basic intervals are unison, 4th, 5th, and octave.

Anytime you have the modifier 'maj', it signifies the Major scale with the leading tone 7th. In 'C', this would be B natural.

No 'maj', it is flattened 7th. In 'C', 'Bb'

'min' would be flattened 3rd, 6th, and 7th compared to the Major scale. C D Eb F G Ab Bb C

Bruce Lindfield · #17 07-13-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassybill

O. M. G.

I'm shocked by some of the "advice" given here.

I hope you're not including me in that!!

tZer · #18 07-13-2009, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beyondat

Thanks, you guys clarified a lot for me. I kind of figured out that they were notes in a scale but just needed some verification. What I still can't figure out is a cmaj7. I know what a cmaj is but I don't know what the added 7 does to it.

As a bass player and in the most elementary sense, the part of a Cmaj7 chord that you should be concerned with the most (if you are unsure) is simply the root - or C and the fact that it's a major chord (as opposed to minor).

Depending on the style of music you're playing, that C may actually be 'required' and you'd get the evil eye from the other players if you chose to play any other pitch.

That said and if all conditions are right - you could play the root (C) where you see that chord, then use the seventh as a part of your 'walk' or whatever phrase you play (depending on style).

If the Cmaj7 appears as the only chord in a 4/4 bar, then you could introduce the bar with the root (C) and outline a Cmaj7 chord (E G B) as the rest of what you play in that bar.

Cmaj7
| C E G B |

The Cmaj7 (as a chord) will be played by other players - piano, guitar, the horn section and so on - so that 7th will be present in the harmony.

I stress "could" because there are a thousand other things you could do that would work and it's all about how that chord is used in the progression/phrase as a whole.

WHERE the 7th (or any other note) appears in your line should be tied to what chords lead you there and where you're heading right after.

**bassybill** · #19 07-13-2009, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

I hope you're not including me in that!!

No, don't worry - you're okay.

MonkeyBass · #20 07-13-2009, 10:49 AM

Take some lessons!!! Preferably from someone with a music degree.

In the meantime learn your intervals and how the chords are written out and you'll be ok.