What are the biggest road blocks to improvement?

[Axtman]

I have known musicians who have practiced/played/gigged for years.....yet they never seem to get any better. Why?

[capnsandwich]

No one was there to teach them how to avoid bad habits so they continue to get better using bad or wrong technique, thus hindering them to further advancement.

[Allen_VA]

Originally Posted by Axtman

I have known musicians who have practiced/played/gigged for years.....yet they never seem to get any better. Why?

Let's start by asking what do you mean by "better"? Is it they can't keep time well, or can't execute a variety of techniques, or the speed of their playing doesn't increase? Something else?

IMO, It's related to the plateau effect. I know athletes who express the idea that you'll plateau unless you change frequency, intensity or duration of your practice regimen.

[JTE]

Biggest road blocks? IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER

A. Laziness- sure, they put in the time, but they play the same thing over and over again. Even if it's different songs, it's the same stuff. They might even say they want to learn more, but won't put in the time and effort to improve.

B. Lack of direction and goals. Never confuse a "dream" with a "plan". Not having clear-cut goals everytime they pick up the bass.

C. Not LISTENING to themselves, or to others. Music is ultimately about sound, therefore the test is how does it sound.

D. Poor instruction. Self taught or otherwise, bad instruction hampers lots of people's development. Well-meaning folks who offer up bad advice, people who teach physical skills at the cost of musical education, people who point to legendary players that never learned theory and say anyone can do that, etc.

E. Gear. Getting hung up on gear and blaming that for their lack of improvement. I can't play "Come On, Come Over" until I get a fretless Jazz bass.

F. Studio recordings- thinking the record IS the song. It's gotta be played and sound this way or its wrong.

John

[Axtman]

I mean flub beginnings of songs, endings, solos, wrong keys, not being tight, come in late, etc.....basically all beginner mistakes.

[yamaha]

I like the Coaching/Athlete example. Very true. I coached for quite some time, and am a way better coach than athlete. I know what I have to do (Theory and technique), but I don't do it (Used to a certain way, cheat).

It's, just like sports, about biomechanics. The most efficient and easy to reproduce angle is a straight line. You can't mess up your follow through if you don't anticipate, etc....

Having said that, you must also (every musician) evaluate where you are, where you want to go, and how much effort you put into it. If you want to play in the studio, with other super talented musicians, you might have some serious work ahead of you.

[yamaha]

Originally Posted by Axtman

I mean flub beginnings of songs, endings, solos, wrong keys, not being tight, come in late, etc.....basically all beginner mistakes.

Well for that, normally, time and ears, and constructive critics.

However you said it's been quite a while, hmmmm. Maybe he doesn't have the AB673EF Bass groove gene in his DNA.

[fdeck]

Surfing the Web.

[Luke19Boarder]

some people just aren't good musicians. they can practice all day, every day, but people can only get SO good at things.

[need4mospd]

Originally Posted by Axtman

I mean flub beginnings of songs, endings, solos, wrong keys, not being tight, come in late, etc.....basically all beginner mistakes.

That is a sign a "musician" that just doesn't care. If you're still making these mistakes as a seasoned and experienced musician, you're not putting in the effort.

[Paul262]

Originally Posted by JTE

B. Lack of direction and goals. Never confuse a "dream" with a "plan". Not having clear-cut goals everytime they pick up the bass.

E. Gear. Getting hung up on gear and blaming that for their lack of improvement. I can't play "Come On, Come Over" until I get a fretless Jazz bass.

I'll be brave and admit these are 2 things that seriously messed around with me... This was the reason why I quit guitar, but it's so easy to translate it to bass guitar...

Basically, I had this idea that the gear I had was worthless, but then I looked at the artists I loved and focused on the ones that used the same guitars (P-bass in this case), I focused on them since I knew I'd have a goal of creating a similar sound. Nick Oliveri really stood out since he play(ed) in my favourite band, and had a pretty clean cut tone, but one hurdle that stopped me from playing his music were the crap strings on the bass. I re-strung it, chucked on the heaviest strings I could buy, and lowered the bass to a C standard tuning.
This greatly inspired me since I could play the music I love to listen to.
I then moved onto getting a Ric (which was more of an impulse by than anything, right time, right place, right PRICE)... The Ric set the standard since it was a high end bass, so I could not make an excuses on gear anymore... My goals are simple, to be able to play a song with little "struggle" as possible over time.

I remember looking at the intro to Rage Against the Machine's Bombtrack, and was gobsmacked at the speed, now I can do it with my eyes closed.

[mcm]

talent talent talent

[need4mospd]

Originally Posted by Luke19Boarder

some people just aren't good musicians. they can practice all day, every day, but people can only get SO good at things.

I refuse to believe that. If someone is practicing all day, everyday under the proper instruction, they WILL improve and eventually be excellent musicians. But with that comes extreme dedication and effort. You have to WANT to be a good musician.

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by need4mospd

I refuse to believe that. If someone is practicing all day, everyday under the proper instruction, they WILL improve and eventually be excellent musicians. But with that comes extreme dedication and effort. You have to WANT to be a good musician.

While I agree with what you're saying, I'll also add that some people just "got it" and it is much easier for them to learn than someone who "ain't got it."

[LaklandBass]

While I dont think that lessons are important for exsperience players I will definitely say that lessons are all that matters for a new player. My friend started out on guitar and played the first 3 years without proper lesson or any jamming with friends. Because of that he got stuck in terrible habbits and still cant break them.

[tobie]

Originally Posted by need4mospd

You have to WANT to be a good musician.

That's the bottom line. Without it, you'll never be the best you can be. With it, you'll get there - it's a matter of time.

[dmusic148]

Originally Posted by Axtman

I mean flub beginnings of songs, endings, solos, wrong keys, not being tight, come in late, etc.....basically all beginner mistakes.

Not enough practice/playing/gigging. There's lots of guys who just want to play but don't do the work to get it right. And they never will.

[MarkTAW]

Originally Posted by JTE

Biggest road blocks? IN NO PARTICULAR ORDER

A. Laziness- sure, they put in the time, but they play the same thing over and over again. Even if it's different songs, it's the same stuff. They might even say they want to learn more, but won't put in the time and effort to improve.

B. Lack of direction and goals. Never confuse a "dream" with a "plan". Not having clear-cut goals everytime they pick up the bass.

C. Not LISTENING to themselves, or to others. Music is ultimately about sound, therefore the test is how does it sound.

D. Poor instruction. Self taught or otherwise, bad instruction hampers lots of people's development. Well-meaning folks who offer up bad advice, people who teach physical skills at the cost of musical education, people who point to legendary players that never learned theory and say anyone can do that, etc.

E. Gear. Getting hung up on gear and blaming that for their lack of improvement. I can't play "Come On, Come Over" until I get a fretless Jazz bass.

F. Studio recordings- thinking the record IS the song. It's gotta be played and sound this way or its wrong.

John

This.

[Thunderthumbs73]

Originally Posted by Axtman

I have known musicians who have practiced/played/gigged for years.....yet they never seem to get any better. Why?

Their mind?

Improvement or aptitude solely based in physical facility pales to positive, productive, and meaningful changes in the mind.

[dkhp124]

lack of focus. they glance over their mistakes and don't think twice about it because it's tedious and annoying to really get it right.