What was this book Jaco studied???

[mrkode]

I read in an article, I don't remember if it was online or in a magazine, that Jaco picked up a book in his early days, called something like harmony concepts or diatonic harmonization concepts or something in the line of those. The story said he litterally devoured it and that it opened a lot of things for him technique and music wise.

Anyone know of the exact title of this book?

Thanks!

[Arnold]

Here you are.
http://www.amazon.com/Thesaurus-Scal...5797833&sr=8-1
Peace.
ASG

[HaVIC5]

It seems like every big name in jazz has attempted study of the Slonimsky at one point or another. Coltrane was the first big one, and everybody soon followed.

WARNING: If you think you can just pick it up and be amazing, don't bother buying it. To get anything out of it you have to have a VERY complete understanding of advanced musical form, because otherwise, its just patterns. You need an understand of how to apply them, because it won't make any sense to you if you don't and will get frustrated very quickly.

[varunkapahi]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

WARNING: If you think you can just pick it up and be amazing, don't bother buying it. To get anything out of it you have to have a VERY complete understanding of advanced musical form, because otherwise, its just patterns. You need an understand of how to apply them, because it won't make any sense to you if you don't and will get frustrated very quickly.

+10
i have seen this book and what haVIC5 is saying is spot on. btw i was one of those who had a look and returned it back to the guy i borrowed it from

[mrkode]

Thanks for the link, that's exactly it.

And thanks also for the warning but I know one can not become a great musician just by reading a book. I was just curious about what this book was about and if I could get anything out of it.

[Ed Fuqua]

You can out of it pretty much the same thing you can get out of buying a dictionary. Buying Slonimsky (even if you have a "very advanced musical understanding") won't make you any more musical than buying a dictionary turns you into a poet.

You'll get far more music out of your head by working on ear training. if you haven't read it yet, check the article by Dave Douglas that somebody posted here....

[onlyclave]

IMO that book looks pretty boring.

[mrkode]

Ok well just by looking at the few pages available on Amazon, I understand the patterns.

There are not enough pages available though to answer some questions that remains, like does he always divide the octave with the triton? And does the chord numbers apply to the pattern as being related to the root or to the specific degree.

Those answers are probably answered somewhere either at the beginning or within the book.

So by this, I think I can say the book seems like a useful musical grammar and vocabulary builder and I'll probably grab a copy of it.

Thanks again for the link.

[derrenleepoole]

Scary book... my friend has it... he's scary too! He also understands it... I rest my case

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

You can out of it pretty much the same thing you can get out of buying a dictionary. Buying Slonimsky (even if you have a "very advanced musical understanding") won't make you any more musical than buying a dictionary turns you into a poet.

You'll get far more music out of your head by working on ear training. if you haven't read it yet, check the article by Dave Douglas that somebody posted here....

Well, judging from how people have used the book, you can certainly get something out of it. Coltrane got the Coltrane changes from studying the ditone progressions.

[HaVIC5]

There are not enough pages available though to answer some questions that remains, like does he always divide the octave with the triton? And does the chord numbers apply to the pattern as being related to the root or to the specific degree.

No, the tritone progressions are just the beginning. He goes through all the equal divisions of the octave, then equal divisions of MULTIPLE octaves (he finishes with equal division of something like 12 octaves, not like that's practical in any way). And that's just the first part alone. He then throws all sorts of bi and polytonal scales at you, pandiatonic progressions, 12-tone permutations, which are rather useless to the non-20th century composer, in my opinion, but it could give you ideas.

[mrkode]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

No, the tritone progressions are just the beginning. He goes through all the equal divisions of the octave, then equal divisions of MULTIPLE octaves (he finishes with equal division of something like 12 octaves, not like that's practical in any way). And that's just the first part alone. He then throws all sorts of bi and polytonal scales at you, pandiatonic progressions, 12-tone permutations, which are rather useless to the non-20th century composer, in my opinion, but it could give you ideas.

Ok it makes more and more sense. So without having looked at it in it's entirety, what I'm gathering up until now, he just layed down on paper, if we take only one octave, all the possible ways to go from the root to the octave by inserting anywhere from 1 to 3 notes between where you decide to split the octave.

After that it's up to you to experiment with the patterns on top of chords and build your own vocabulary.

And if this is it, it's only a starting ground tool and experimenting by yourself on changes to hear what works and what don't and also build your own vocabulary in the process would achieve the same results in the end in my opinion.

This is not to say that the book is not a useful tool and only if i got what it is.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Well, judging from how people have used the book, you can certainly get something out of it. Coltrane got the Coltrane changes from studying the ditone progressions.

Not really, those progressions had precursors in such prosaic tunes as HAVE YOU MET MISS JONES and others. JC, being a prodigious practitioner, would have reached the conclusions he did with or without Sloniminsky.

[DocBop]

To the OP don't forget Jaco was also and arranger and composer, so his interest was far more than ideas for licks and lines. The Slonimsky book is not a method or text book it is concepts you try, analyze, and use as launching point for your own ideas.

It's one of those books you look at it and your reaction will tell you if you are ready for it or not. Try to find a copy and look at it first. If not ready for it now, you will be eventually.

[bottomzone]

Victor Bailey used this book as well. I bought a copy, mainly for my son. Since he is a Music major and is light years ahead me at age 19, he will get better use since he really understands what this book is all about!


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