What is the Circle of 4ths?

[homercaholic]

Im really trying to focus on Theory and expanding my musical tastes in the past couple days cause I feel its here thats holding me back. Im slowly getting better but im still confused what the Circle of 4ths or 5ths is and how it is used? People say its a great practice tool but I cant find a good explanation of it anywhere (ive tried the search function here and everything i found confused me more).

If someone could be so kind as to explain it for me, the function of it and how to use it in my practice and theory routine, it would be a great help.

[uethanian]

if your a keyboard player, it really helps. but if your not...well...

a circle of 5ths or 4ths usually refers to a chord progression. for the 5ths, which is more common, you pick a starting note, say A, go up a fifth to E, then to B, then to F#, C#, G#, D#, A#, F, C, G, D, and finally back to A.

the circle of 4ths can be thought of as an opposite motion (since a 4th is the inverse of a 5th), but the two are very similar.

now thats just the bass line...you have many options as to what chords you want to put above those roots.

a common circle of 4ths would be Bm7, Em7, Am7, Dm7, G7, CMa7...but you could also change that Bm7 to a Bdim. because the circle goes on forever, usually a chord at the end is given an accidental, most often to make a minor chord major. that chord then voice-leads to the starting point.

sit down at a keyboard to figure it out, the progressions create nifty little patterns for your chording hand.

[Ericman197]

It isn't particularly useful for anything other than memorizing key signatures.

Here it is in all it's glory



We start at C. Add in sharps and you get the sharp key signatures. Add in flats and you get the flat key signatures.

You're always moving by fifths/fourths in the wheel. C to G? fifth. G to C? Fourth. Moving a space to the right is a fifth, a space to the left is a fourth.

The actual usefulness of the circle, other than as a memorization tool, is that it tells you what keys you can and cannot transition to. For example, if you're in the key of C major, it would be quite a sharp transition to go to B major. However, F major and G major are just a hop, skip and a jump away, as are Am (same notes as C), D minor (one flat) and G major (one sharp). As you get more experienced in music writing you may be able to handle a huge key signature change like F minor to E major without sounding awkward.

The only other thing to it is that the sharps and flats go in an order. If you can't read sheet music that order is:

flats: BEADGCF (bead, greatest common factor)
shaprs: FCGDAEB (opposite of flats)

so F major has b flat, Bb major has b and e flat, A major has F# C# G# and so on.

note that the relative minor of any major key is the key with the same notes, but starting on the sixth. ex:

CDEFGABC (C major)
ABCDEFGA (a minor)

note that a minor starts on the sixth note in the c major scale, but otherwise has the same notes.

the minor version of any major key (ie C major vs. minor) is the major key + 3 flats so:

to make D major: D E F G A B C D -> 2 sharps (F and C) -> D E F# G A B C# D

now to make it minor we add in three flats. Since we already have two sharps you cross them out, and add in one more flat (B):

D E F G A Bb C D

and so on

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Ericman197

It isn't particularly useful for anything other than memorizing key signatures.

I wouldn't say that to too many "jazz" composers if I was you.

The circle of 4ths is the inversion of the circle of 5ths. The circle of 4ths is generally used as a way of changing "key" by using the dominant of the previous "key" to move to the dominant of the next "key" by transposing only one note at a time. For example in a sense of how the scales will move we might go from D Mixolydian to G Mixolydian the only difference between these scales is that we change from F# as the 3rd of D to make F the b7th of G. This is used as a subtle change that won't make the listener feel that anything is particularly out of place and gives us a dominant based on both "keys". You could basically apply this to all 12 chromatic tones and in the end return to the original "key".

A primary example is of the old "jazz" standard progression II7 V7 I

[Correlli]

Use it to modulate to any key.

[Jim Breece]

This is not a direct answer, but a little background may help. I was a self taught rocker and I didn't get why the cycle was supposed to be so important. It didn't seem to play much part in the songs that I listened to and learned to play. As I got more into "the great American songbook" (largely showtunes written roughly1915-1955) it started to show up a LOT. Some of those songs seem like a big continuous escalator of chord movement up the cycle with just an occasional break. Even if those songs aren't what currently have your interest, the circle of fourths/cycle of fifths is pretty basic to the way western music is put together and thought about. Relationships between keys and chords and scales are pretty much organized with the cycle as the framework. It is easier to see a lot of this on a piano. I know if I'd gotten this answer when I started trying to sort some of this out it would have been another annoying "Yeah, but that's not what I asked..." response that I seemed to get a lot of. The subject is deeper than a short answer allows for though. Maybe this is a little more to the immediate point: the cycle of fourths isn't something you use as an exercise to improve your playing as much as it is something that helps you understand the theory and structure behind what you're playing. No, that really wasn't much better was it? Sorry. Keep plugging, get in some keyboard time if you're not already, keep revising what you've learned and soon you'll be giving this sort of seemingly nonhelpful answer to others.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Use it to modulate to any key.

To any key? Unless I am missing something the circle of 4ths will only modulate "key" one 4th at a time. If you go from G Mixolydian to A Mixolydian. For example you are not doing anything with the circle of 4ths.

[DaveAceofBass]

Originally Posted by Ericman197

Eric is right--here is the Circle of 5ths. Clockwise, the sharp keys increase one sharp each time you move the root of the key up a perfect 5th interval. The circle of 4ths is the same as looking at it counter-clockwise....the flat keys add one sharp each time you move the root of the key up a perfect 4th. The proper name is the Circle of 5ths....the circle of 4ths is not the proper name, but it can be thought of that way when you look at it counter-clockwise, retrograde.

The usefulness is in the Cycle of 4ths. There are tons of tunes whose chords move up in 4ths, or down by fifth. Memorize the Circle's key progressions, and memorizing chord progressions that move in that fashion become easy. Many jazz standards use these progressions, but often times not all of the chords are diatonic, some slip outside of the original key.

Here's some examples of tunes with progressions that move around in fourths:

Autumn Leaves
All the Things You Are
Bluesette
Fly Me to the Moon
Alice in Wonderland

That's just a few that come to the top of my mind. Many others move in fourths even if for only a couple of changes before moving to some other type of progression.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by Kiwi Kid

Use it to modulate to any key.

The Circle Fourth of Fifths depending on which direction you go is more about common strong root movement in progressions. People do change keys in 4th's or 5th's but they change keys in many other ways too. Things like pivot chords, parallel keys, modal interchange, relative keys and just plain direct modulation are some of the ways composers use.

The COF's is like a Swiss Army Knife a tool with many uses.

[homercaholic]

Ok so I think I get it. If you move clockwise from C Major and start another Major scale (or is corresponding minor) from the 5th note the scale will have one more sharp note then the one before it. If you move counterclock wise from Cmaj and start another major (or minor) scale on the 4th note it will have one more flat then the one before it. Is this correct?

Im still not sure how it can be used, I guess thats something that will come in time though. Is there really any theory you can practice with the bass or is it basically a lot of reading?

[Jim Breece]

You are correct,sir! As far as theory and the bass, there's theory behind everything you play on any instrument. It's just way way easier to see it when it's laid out on a keyboard than it is on a fretboard. If you're really interested a little keyboard work becomes vital. Not to be a great or even good keyboard player, just to see what's going on. That being said, if you don't have access to one right now, it seems like you're going in the right direction as is. Lots and lots of players never wonder about this stuff at all, so you're well ahead of the pack. Without formal instruction you just need to keep putting new stuff in your head as you get it and adjust what you thought you knew before. I wish I had a book or dvd to recommend, but the stuff I am familiar with is easy to bog down in before you can extract the stuff you're after now. Anyone else have recommendations?
btw what style(s) of music are you interested in right now? That may help define what's of most help to you at the moment.

[homercaholic]

Mostly Rock, Metallica, Zeppelin, Chili Peppers, Green Day but i'll listen to anything if it sounds good...besides country I havent been progressing because I believe im limiting myself to these types of music. Now im trying to branch out and look at some Jazz, Blues and Motown but clueless as to where to look for these. Have a couple mentions of books but havent had a chance to get to a store yet. I really want to develop my rhythm and ability to get up and down the fretboard smoothly while keeping the beat.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by Jim Breece

As far as theory and the bass, there's theory behind everything you play on any instrument. It's just way way easier to see it when it's laid out on a keyboard than it is on a fretboard. If you're really interested a little keyboard work becomes vital. Not to be a great or even good keyboard player, just to see what's going on.

I don't agree, really.

On the contrary, keyboards tend to complicate our sense of intervalic relationships into paradgims of diatonic hierachy rather than functions of intervalic relationships.

Rather than universally identifying intervals as being transposable to any given tonal centre, the keyboard makes us imply 12 seperate "key" patterns. On the fretboard, once we understand the relationship of a given set of notes and intervals, we can easily transpose to another tonal centre without having to think about which "sharps" or "flats" are involved. By the way what is called "sharp" and "flat" is really a matter of nomenclature, and is only functional when you are of the belief that the C major scale is the epitome of diatonic harmony and that diatonic harmony is in turn the epitome of all music theory.

If you really wanted to put this kind of linear thinking into context you would have to apply it to a harp or zither.

[homercaholic]

I dont own a keyboard either, forgot to mention that. Im the only one who even thought about picking up an instrument in my family.

[Foxworthy925]

Originally Posted by homercaholic

Im the only one who even thought about picking up an instrument in my family.

well good choice, btw. A lot better than playing video games or getting drunk or some other useless time waster like that.

[homercaholic]

haha yea, im only 22 so my good years of drunk in university with 19 and 20 year old single women every weekend is over....well not really, its quickly coming to an end as it is my 5th and last year

[BassChuck]

After you mastered the "Circle of 5ths" don't forget to explore the "Triangle of Major 3rds" or the "Square of Minor 3rds" and lastly the truly useful "Hexagon of Whole Steps".

[mutedeity]

You forgot the tetradecahedron of just-intoational augmented 2nds

[jweiss]

A great learning tool for the circle of 4ths/5ths:

http://www.circle-of-fifths.net/

[Lorenzini]

Originally Posted by uethanian

if your a keyboard player, it really helps. but if your not...well...

That's pure bunk. You hear the circle of 5ths being used ALL over different kinds of music and EVERYBODY should know what it is.

Otherwise, how do you know what the turnaround is doing in "The Boys Are Back In Town" by the Bus Boys..
Or the turnaround and modulation in "Easy Like Sunday Morning" by The Commodores (L. Ritchie)

If you don't know the circle of 5ths well, you won't understand some very basic chord progressions such as the II-V-I, or III-VI-II-V-I.

As far as it being only for "jazz" composers, I've listed rock/pop 2 songs up there that incorporate some circle of 5ths principles.