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06-21-2007, 09:12 PM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Madison, WI/Indianapolis, IN | |
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Not all latin is fast, not all latin is cuban, not all latin is roots and fifths,
OPEN YOUR MINDS FOLKS,
Just go out and get a real book and listen to some of the latin songs in there and go from there. |
06-22-2007, 06:33 AM
|  | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12  Not all latin is fast, not all latin is cuban, not all latin is roots and fifths,
OPEN YOUR MINDS FOLKS,
Just go out and get a real book and listen to some of the latin songs in there and go from there. | I agree with your first two sentences and this is exactly what I have been saying in this thread!
So - I have played Samba,Bossa Nova,Salsa/Afro Cuban,Cha Cha Cha,Rumba, Merengue etc. etc.
It could all be classed as Latin and there are also many 'fusions' with Jazz, Funk etc.
You can't pin it down in a few sentences!
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06-22-2007, 08:27 AM
|  | Mr Sumisu 2 U
Developer: iGigBook® | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Peoples Republic of Brooklyn | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield So what's the clave for Tango or Merengue...  | Kind of irrelevant, when the original topic is "Latin Jazz" which is primarily "Afro-Cuban" based. Quote: |
So I'm trying to explore the Latin Jazz style a bit but I have no idea what makes Latin, well, "Latin." I'm mostly interested in what scales/modes, chords, and basically the theory behind it. Also, recommendations for recordings would be appreciated!
| |
06-22-2007, 08:29 AM
| | Mr Sumisu 2 U
Developer: iGigBook® | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Peoples Republic of Brooklyn | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli_Upright12 Not all latin is fast, not all latin is cuban, not all latin is roots and fifths,
OPEN YOUR MINDS FOLKS,
Just go out and get a real book and listen to some of the latin songs in there and go from there. | Don't you mean get some "real recordings" and listen to them? |
06-22-2007, 09:21 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith Kind of irrelevant, when the original topic is "Latin Jazz" which is primarily "Afro-Cuban" based. |
No - I think you are wrong on both counts!
So the question is actually :..what makes Latin, well, "Latin." ? Or as per the title - "What defines Latin Music?"
Tango and Merengue are Latin styles of music - end of story - if you are trying to define what makes Latin - then you can't just ignore whole swathes of it, to suit yourself! 
Secondly I would certainly disgaree that Latin Jazz is primarily Afro- Cuban - most people I know when asked about Latin Jazz start playing a Bossa Nova or Samba rhythm, which is definitely Brazilian in origin.
And some of the most famous Latin Jazz recordings are Brazilian fusions - like Stan Getz with Jobim/Gilberto, Chic Corea with Airto and Flora Purim on Light as a Feather etc etc
There are literally hundreds of Brazilian Bossas which are now Jazz standards and can be heard from just about every big-name Jazz artist!
There are also many Jazz Sambas - written by artists like Jim Hall - who has also absorbed Spanish music into Jazz -which might be yet another Latin influence!
Afro Cuban is definitely an influence on some artists like Coltrane and Dizzy - but in the last 50 years of Jazz I'd say there's far more diverse influences that can be classed a "Latin"!
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
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06-22-2007, 09:54 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Los Angeles, CA | | | Not tradional Latin bass lines but some hot bass playing check out Lincolin Goines work with Dave Valentin especially the Live At The Blue Note, that is some burning Latin music. Lincolin also an interesting book on Latin slap bass.
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06-22-2007, 10:22 AM
| | Mr Sumisu 2 U
Developer: iGigBook® | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Peoples Republic of Brooklyn | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield No - I think you are wrong on both counts!
So the question is actually :..what makes Latin, well, "Latin." ? Or as per the title - "What defines Latin Music?" | I quoted the original question which was primarily about "Latin Jazz", you must have missed that. My bad...NOT! Quote: |
Tango and Merengue are Latin styles of music - end of story - if you are trying to define what makes Latin - then you can't just ignore whole swathes of it, to suit yourself! | The OP is interested in Latin Jazz, not everything Latin, he didn't ask about bachatas or boleros. Quote: |
Secondly I would certainly disgaree that Latin Jazz is primarily Afro- Cuban - most people I know when asked about Latin Jazz start playing a Bossa Nova or Samba rhythm, which is definitely Brazilian in origin.
| That's people that YOU know, and that's probably all that they know or are familiar with. BTW, the clave is still in there.  Quote: |
And some of the most famous Latin Jazz recordings are Brazilian fusions - like Stan Getz with Jobim/Gilberto, Chic Corea with Airto and Flora Purim on Light as a Feather etc etc
| Try listening to some of the artist that I mentioned earlier. There's latin jazz and then there's LATIN JAZZ. Quote:
There are literally hundreds of Brazilian Bossas which are now Jazz standards and can be heard from just about every big-name Jazz artist!
There are also many Jazz Sambas - written by artists like Jim Hall - who has also absorbed Spanish music into Jazz -which might be yet another Latin influence!
| And your point here is what? Quote: |
Afro Cuban is definitely an influence on some artists like Coltrane and Dizzy - but in the last 50 years of Jazz I'd say there's far more diverse influences that can be classed a "Latin"!
| You're still stuck in the realm of Jazz artists that have Latin influence. What about the Latin Artists that the influence came from i.e. the source? |
06-24-2007, 11:39 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil Smith I quoted the original question which was primarily about "Latin Jazz", The OP is interested in Latin Jazz....The OP is interested in Latin Jazz, not everything Latin, he didn't ask about bachatas or boleros.
You're still stuck in the realm of Jazz artists that have Latin influence. What about the Latin Artists that the influence came from i.e. the source? | I think you just disappeared up your own ass!! 
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
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06-25-2007, 11:51 AM
| | Mr Sumisu 2 U
Developer: iGigBook® | | Join Date: May 2000 Location: Peoples Republic of Brooklyn | | Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield I think you just disappeared up your own ass!! | Personal attacks do not advance your irrelevant point. |
06-25-2007, 01:06 PM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Nothing personal - it was a comment about the circuitous logic of that reply!!
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“Making the simple complicated is commonplace; making the complicated simple, awesomely simple, that's creativity.”
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06-26-2007, 01:45 PM
|  | Registered User | | Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Maynard MA | | | The Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro, may be a good start at defining it. I just started work in it this morning. |
06-28-2007, 07:07 AM
| | Registered User | | Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: TX | | Well this topic sure brought some interesting replies. Yeah, what I'm playing is latin-influenced jazz but listening to actual latin music helps as well. I'm just trying to absorb as much of it as I can.
All the suggestions on books and artists really helped though and please, continue your debates. |
06-28-2007, 09:54 AM
| | Unprofessional TalkBass Contributor | | Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Brighton, England, UK, Europe | | Quote:
Originally Posted by tomshepp The Latin Bass Book by Oscar Stagnaro, may be a good start at defining it. . | Yes this is a very good book, which I've had for a few years now - Oscar Stagnaro actually bothers to identify all the different styles of Latin music and lay out the differences between them, as related to bass lines! 
So - he starts with the Tumbao and Clave, but goes on to look at ChaChaCha, Afro 6/8,Samba, Partido Alto,Baiao, Merengue and even Reggae!
Good written examples of all and CDs!
Almost certainly the most comprehensive guide!
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