What Key or Mode??

[Paulb7664]

Hi all
Ok. If a song starts in A major ends with D major and follows the scale of G major. What key is it in??
The song is Nickel Back's version of Elton John's "Saturday Nights All Right For A Fight" All chords are Major apart from E min.
I would say it's in D mixolydian!??
I don't know much about modes etc so could do withyou help.
So much to learn and so little time!!

Thanks

Paul

[DocBop]

You talking from a sheet music standpoint or what. Sheet music the key signature is whatever key the song starts in. Now sometimes if an arrangement and the song is modulating to another key they will cancel out the previous key signature and show the new one. At least that is the proper way, some will just write a new key. I don't know the song your talking about but my guess is its modulating, nothing to do with modes.

[sk8terguy316]

Who gives a ****? Man, first off if you're trying to figure out what key the piece is in look at the melody. On average, you can't really clearly judge a piece's key signature by its harmony, Because the majority of music does not follow strict diatonic harmony, it follows chromatic harmony and if you're trying to analyze and fit it into diatonic harmony than just go with what DocBob says: Modulations.

[JimmyM]

Definitely modulations. The original version starts out in the key of G then goes to C for the chorus. And don't get confused if you hear notes that aren't in the key. All keys allow for accidentals, which are notes that aren't in the key.

[KayCee]

I don't know the Nickelback version, but am familiar with the original.

If you're talking about the verse, each of the chords would be treated as it's own Mixolydian, IMO.

I hear all three chords to be dominant seventh chord scales, whether or not the seventh of the chord is actually stated by the chordal instruments. This isn't unusual, as a boogie-woogie song of this type is harmonically blues-based.

The fact that the guitar bounces off of the sus4 on each of the chords would lead me to make them all Mixolydian. If not, the second chord (talking about the verse here) that's built on the b7 of the key could possibly be Lydian b7.

So, in summary, mix to mix to mix.

[ryco]

Rock music is very liberal when it comes to keys and modulations.

Does't necessarily follow "classical" theory rules with the proper set up and resolution in and out of chords. Uses lots of secondary dominants and chords that are out of key such as bVII7, bIII7, II7 (V/V7), for instance. Tends to lean on major chords (and sus4) more than the others to my ear.

Same with blues, country and folk. Simple[r] music which makes it easy to listen to and a little easier to play and write. IME it's what makes these styles so popular.

[Bassinthehole]

Nickelback doesn't play the most complex style of music...if the progression contains A, D, Em and G...its prolly in the key of D

[owensea777]

Originally Posted by Bassinthehole

Nickelback doesn't play the most complex style of music...if the progression contains A, D, Em and G...its prolly in the key of D

I second that, even though Em isn't in D.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by owensea777

I second that, even though Em isn't in D.

Oh yes it is it is the II chord in D major. The II is also a sub for the IV chord.

[owensea777]

So D major is D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, and D.
The E can be minor or major? Obviously I'm new to this

[exflavier@gmail]

if you build triads on top of each scale degree and use notes ony available within that key you get this..

I ii iii IV V vi vii(diminished)

or

Dmaj Emin F#min Gmaj Amaj Bmin C#dim

[improvpwnd]

Originally Posted by owensea777

So D major is D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#, and D.

Yes.

Originally Posted by owensea777

The E can be minor or major? Obviously I'm new to this

No, it goes:
D (I - major), E (ii - minor), F# (iii - minor), G (IV - major), A (V - major), B (vi -minor), C# (vii - minor).

So in the major mode, I, IV, and V are all major chordal structures (their 3rds and 5ths are major, while ii, iii, vi, and vii have minor 3rds and 5ths).

Sorry if it doesn't make sense.. not very good at explaining or using proper terminology...

[Paulb7664]

Am I right in saying If you follow it from a note point of view the key would be Gmaj, If you do it from a chords/triads its D Mixolydian??
Another question: When righting songs would they think of it as Gmaj or D Mixolydian??

Thanks

Paul

[owensea777]

Originally Posted by exflavier@gmail

if you build triads on top of each scale degree and use notes ony available within that key you get this..

I ii iii IV V vi vii(diminished)

or

Dmaj Emin F#min Gmaj Amaj Bmin C#dim

Ah! I get it! The D major triad's 3rd's and 5th's are F# and A, which fit the key. The E minor triad's 3rd's and 5th's are G and Bm which also work, but the E major's 3rd is a G#, which doesn't fit. That's why it's E minor and not E major! The C#'s diminished triad has third's and fifth's of E and G, that's why that one works.
Here's a question though, how'd you know to use triads? Is that what you always use? For example, if the song wasn't in a major key (or Ionian), would you use something else?

Thanks so much exflavier@gmail and improvpwnd you filled in a huge gap for me!

[middy]

"Chords" are always built in triads (3 or 4 half-steps), otherwise they're called tone-clusters or double-stops. "Power chord" is a misnomer, it's just a double-stop of a perfect fifth. A sus4 or sus2 "chord" is a tone cluster that will (theoretically) resolve the "suspended" second or fourth to a third.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by middy

"Chords" are always built in triads (3 or 4 half-steps), otherwise they're called tone-clusters or double-stops. "Power chord" is a misnomer, it's just a double-stop of a perfect fifth. A sus4 or sus2 "chord" is a tone cluster that will (theoretically) resolve the "suspended" second or fourth to a third.

I think you meant to say chords are built in thirds. A triad is the most basic chord being three notes each a third away from the other. Each note you add after that is up another third. They are also combinations of major and minor thirds within a chord.

A C major triad is a C E G. C to E is a major 3rd, E to G is a minor 3rd.

A C minor triad is C Eb G. C to Eb is a minor 3rd, and Eb to G is a major 3rd.

[middy]

Doh!

Yeah, built in thirds. Thanks Doc!