What scale could I use for this chord progression?

BagsBass · #1 03-05-2010, 02:19 PM

verse is D C G
chorus is Bm G D A

the c# and c notes in the C major and A major chords are the conundrum here. What kind of bass scale could I use to play along with those chords? I managed to get a basic foundation going, but I'm having trouble getting comfortable with the fills and runs.

Thanks.

guroove · #2 03-05-2010, 02:22 PM

The A chord is the problem, it really should be minor. Besides that, it sounds like a song that is in G major / D mixolydian.

swelltrain · #3 03-05-2010, 02:43 PM

Assuming you are correct and the A should be minor, would you be more inclined to refer to this song as D Mixo since the Am is the V in the chorus, and that V would have a stronger resolve back into the I for the verse?

BagsBass · #4 03-05-2010, 02:51 PM

the only problem is that the chorus needs a brighter feel coming out of it and the A major lends itself to that effect. I've tried playing A minor, and even though it would fit better into the key, it doesn't give me the sound I'm looking for at that moment. I'm in the horns of a dilemma!

agreatheight · #5 03-05-2010, 02:53 PM

If the A sounds right as a major, then it is. Songs can change keys or have passing tones. Don't look for a scale to solve your problem on this one - try singing melodies to work out a line.

Warfender · #6 03-05-2010, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guroove

The A chord is the problem, it really should be minor. Besides that, it sounds like a song that is in G major / D mixolydian.

I agree the key signature is G Major (Ionian mode)

bassmanjla · #7 03-05-2010, 02:57 PM

you should post a recording of it. to this thread.

BagsBass · #8 03-05-2010, 02:58 PM

oh and it starts off in D and ends in D and the main riff is sort of centered around D

MonetBass · #9 03-05-2010, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warfender

I agree the key signature is G Major (Ionian mode)

Right, and for those of you calling the A Maj 'wrong', it is merely the V/V (D), which is why it is Maj.

For the OP, you could use D Maj. scale during the bars with the A Maj., or just throw in a C# to imply the dominant.

Richard Lindsey · #10 03-05-2010, 03:14 PM

If the piece is really centered on D as the OP says, then D must be the tonal center and it should probably be thought of as being in some kind of D key or mode. Not G.

When trying to figure out keys, it's not enough just to look at the set(s) of notes you're working with; you also have to figure out where the tonal center(s) is/are, because you need both of those elements to determine your key or modality. The note set A B C D E F# G does not automatically equate to being in the key of G unless you're using the notes in such a way as to establish G as the tonic or tonal center. If you use that same set of notes but make A your tonal center, you're really in A dorian.

The assumption of the original post seems to be that there is one and only one scale to play with all of those chords. But there's no reason to assume that that's the case.

Start with the assumption that the tonal center is D. Then look at the chord tones.

D = D F# A
C = C E G
G = G B D

Bm = B D F#
G = G B D
A = A C# E
D = D F# A

Look for common tones. Pretty much everything is shared except for the C/C#. So your working note pool is D E F# G A B C/C# D. Given the assumption that D is your tonal center, you might use both D major and D mixolydian as appropriate.

This is keeping things on a fairly simple and basic diatonic level. But sooner or later you'll get beyond that. For example, there are times when you might want to play a C natural under an A major chord simply because that gets you the sound you're looking for.

MatticusMania · #11 03-05-2010, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BagsBass

oh and it starts off in D and ends in D and the main riff is sort of centered around D

I'd use D as my root and play based on that. I have yet to learn my scales, Im really lazy about that, but I can still play great!

BagsBass · #12 03-05-2010, 03:23 PM

I know I said it's centered around D, and it is, but would it make sense to play in a Gmaj scale over the D-C-G and use a Bm scale over the Bm-G-D-A? I suppose switching between the D major and D mixolydian idea would work, except I'm worried about two things: #1 I'm not too familiar with a mixolydian scale and #2 the D major would be played during a piece that is supposed to sound minor and dark....contrasted with the verse, which should have a happier feel to it. Sorry. Not trying to be difficult, just really into this one.

BagsBass · #13 03-05-2010, 03:25 PM

the verse chords D-C-G double as the intro and the outro progressions. the Bm-G-D-A is a chorus part. When I said it ends with a D, I just meant that the last chord (cadence if you will) is literally a D. Just pointing out that the song is centered around D, for everyone saying G major would work.

Richard Lindsey · #14 03-05-2010, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BagsBass

I know I said it's centered around D, and it is, but would it make sense to play in a Gmaj scale over the D-C-G and use a Bm scale over the Bm-G-D-A? I suppose switching between the D major and D mixolydian idea would work, except I'm worried about two things: #1 I'm not too familiar with a mixolydian scale and #2 the D major would be played during a piece that is supposed to sound minor and dark....contrasted with the verse, which should have a happier feel to it. Sorry. Not trying to be difficult, just really into this one.

You're really worrying too much about the scale and not enough about the chord tones. That's why I said start with the chord tones. Look at it this way. You could, if you wanted, play a part to that progression using nothing but the notes in the chords. It's when you get into the question of how to get from one chord tone to the next, either within a chord or between chords, that you start to think about, hey, what other notes are there in this key that aren't in the chord I'm playing at the moment?

IMO it doesn't make sense to think about playing in G if you're not really in G. That would be like thinking you're riding a bike while you're driving a car.

D mixolydian is just this; D E F# G A B C. Very much like D major except for the substitution of C natural for C#. The reason I keep saying look at the chord tones is that if you do that, you'll practically be led to this without even having to worry about names like mixolydian.

EBodious · #15 03-05-2010, 03:44 PM

it definitely looks like a key of D song to me. it is not at all unusual for a pop/rock/folk etc song to have a flat 7 major chord (the C) in them. great effect really.

i think the above post really covers the issue. there is nothing wrong with adding a c# during the A chord if you want. and using C natural in other parts of the song. hey, C natural may even sound good under the A major chord. ya don't know till ya try. heck, why not "stick it" to the dilemma by using the C and the C# in a walk up to return to the D chord from the A chord!

theory is great for growing an understanding of music, but it is not meant to stifle your creativity. in other words you may be putting the cart before the horse.

please don't think of it as the "horns of a dilemma." think of it as an opportunity to use your ear and develop your musical instincts.

Chris K · #16 03-05-2010, 03:57 PM

IMHO if you start your bass line from the chords, you are putting things upside down, shutting off creative solutions.
Nobody in this thread ever asked: what is the exact melody to this song/tune? A bass line with octave parallels to the melody is bad news. So we simply don't know enough to find a solution here.

The golden rule: Bass line before chords.
If you have to change the chords to improve the bass line, do it.

This harmonic approach will always save your neck if you:
1. first write the melody
2. write a bass line that fits that melody
3. and only after that, determine what the in-between voices could be.
4. to find out in the end which chords you have written by looking at the voices working together.

Richard Lindsey · #17 03-05-2010, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris K

IMHO if you start your bass line from the chords, you are putting things upside down, shutting off creative solutions.
Nobody in this thread ever asked: what is the exact melody to this song/tune? A bass line with octave parallels to the melody is bad news. So we simply don't know enough to find a solution here.

The golden rule: Bass line before chords.
If you have to change the chords to improve the bass line, do it.

This harmonic approach will always save your neck if you:
1. first write the melody
2. write a bass line that fits that melody
3. and only after that, determine what the in-between voices could be.
4. to find out in the end which chords you have written by looking at the voices working together.

I don't think I would agree on this one. I think you're conflating the the process of composition with the process of coming up with a part to play in accompanying music that's already at least partially composed. That is, he's already got the progression. He's not asking how he can come up with a better progression, he's asking what to do in playing along with the progression he already has. Or so I interpret the post.

guroove · #18 03-05-2010, 04:03 PM

Sorry, I was thinking in terms of key signature before. The song is centered around D for sure, but the key signature would be that of G major. The C# in the A chord is an accidental, turning the A chord into the dominant chord that resolves to D.

Richard Lindsey · #19 03-05-2010, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guroove

Sorry, I was thinking in terms of key signature before. The song is centered around D for sure, but the key signature would be that of G major. The C# in the A chord is an accidental, turning the A chord into the dominant chord that resolves to D.

You're right, key signature =/= key. But iI wouldn't say writing it with one sharp is necessarily the best idea. You could just as well write it in D major and use an accidental for the C natural. In fact, that would probably work better, being an approach you might be more likely to see in practice.

Bennet Pullen · #20 03-05-2010, 04:13 PM

It looks to me like this song (at least in the verses) is using the classic blues/rock/country/pop trick of constant form. That means that the chord roots are moving around but the chord quality is staying the same. In a classic blues that means all of the chords are 7 chords, in this case it means major chords. What that means is that you really could go with a lot of possibilities, and you'll have to use your ears to decide what's right for you. That being said D major pentatonic would be 100% "safe" all the time.

Another option would be to use a D minor pentatonic or blues scale. That may sound strange theoretically but in blues music the chords are all major based, and minor scales are played over the top. That sounds great, and it probably would in this instance as well, depending on what the melody is doing.

Or if you want to keep things diatonic over the chords just play a D mixolydian (major scale with a flat 7th degree) and switch your C to a C# only over the A major chord. Or just don't play any C when you're on the A chord and you'd be safe. Really though, use your ears. I bet some chromatic fills would sound cool over those chords and that wouldn't fit into any scale.