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  #1  
Old 12-22-2009, 02:45 PM
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what's the best way to identify the correct scale to use??

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Here is the scenario:

At my church we have various devotional leaders that have a tendency to pull songs out the blue. Therefore, the musicians have to be able to improv on the spot.

My question is what is the best method for identifying the correct scale to use for any given song??Up until now I thought that the major scale covered everything but apparently that's not true. Now true enough, most gospel songs sound the same with the root 3, 5 and the maj7 chord but every now and then , I come across a song where the major scale just doesn't seem to flow well. therefore, I'm making a special effort to become proficient with the minor and dominant scales.

Any advice would be appreciated.
  #2  
Old 12-22-2009, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ericmknight1906 View Post
My question is what is the best method for identifying the correct scale to use for any given song??Up until now I thought that the major scale covered everything but apparently that's not true. Now true enough, most gospel songs sound the same with the root 3, 5 and the maj7 chord but every now and then , I come across a song where the major scale just doesn't seem to flow well. therefore, I'm making a special effort to become proficient with the minor and dominant scales. Any advice would be appreciated.
True - gospel like rock and country will 99% of the time be major, however, to be sure you have to look to the chords used. For example:

The hymnal's key signature will tell you what key/scale you are to use. The key signature is shown on the sheet music just beside the time signature at the start of the song, i.e. For example; I Need Thee Every Hour has four flat notations (b's) shown so that means the song is in Ab -- or Ab's relative minor key of F minor. The notes in Ab and Fm are the same, so are the chords - it's how the chords are used that tell what key you have. If the chords used revolve around Ab, Db and Eb it is Ab major, but, if they revolve around Fm, Bbm and Cm then the song is in F minor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Circle_of_fifths

http://www.musilosophy.com/chord-charts.htm

Now most hymnal sheet music will not show you the chord names so presume it's Ab major - or read (identify) the chord notes in the bass clef.

Now if you are using lead sheet music or fake chord you look first to the key signature (and hope there is one) lets say there is one # shown. That means your key is G or G's relative minor Em. To tell which one you have to look to the chords used - if the chords revolve around G, C, and D major you're Major, however, if they revolve around Em, Am and Bm your in G's relative minor - Em. What the chords resolve to (V-I major or V-i minor) is what you are looking for.

Other ways to tell - if every verse ends with the same chord that is your key.

Another way is to list every chord used in the song, cross out all the duplications, ignore the fancy extensions, you are looking for major, minor, dominant (b7) and diminished chords. Put them in alphabetical order and then see what key has those chords. Not some of them all of them.

If you only have notes shown (no chords) do the same thing you did with chords and see what scale they all fit into. That's your scale.

Hopefully your sheet music will just tell you what key to use.

Some memory pegs:
See God Destroy All Earth By F#irey C#haos. C has zero sharps, G has one, D has two etc.
Fat cats go down alleys eating birds is the order of the sharps. C has none, G has one the F#, D keeps the F# and adds the C# etc.
Farmer Brown eats apple dumplings greasily cooked is the order of the flats and also the order they come in. F has the Bb first then Bb adds the Eb, then Eb adds the Ab, etc.

Have fun.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 12-23-2009 at 06:11 AM.
  #3  
Old 12-22-2009, 04:01 PM
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First, look for ii V I progressions (i.e. Bbmin to Eb7 to Ab). Those three chords define the key of Ab, so that's the scale that works for those three chords. But more importantly, if you base your line on the chord changes (and this assumes you know the chord tones), then it becomes pretty obvious what notes work for passing tones.

I don't think much in terms of scales at all when playing, but look at the root motion, and the essential harmony.

John
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  #4  
Old 12-23-2009, 02:05 AM
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Out of the blue... that's where the real players come from.

Like Malcome says: key is the ending note (maybe not of the verse, that might end on a V7, but certainly of the chorus).

Like JTE says: learn basic harmonic progressions.

My .02: learn to play those harmonic progressions UP THE NECK in standard fingering patterns, so you can easily shift up or down a couple of frets, or to a higher or lower string, to adapt quickly to the out of the blue key of the song.
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  #5  
Old 12-23-2009, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmknight1906 View Post
Here is the scenario:

At my church we have various devotional leaders that have a tendency to pull songs out the blue. Therefore, the musicians have to be able to improv on the spot.

My question is what is the best method for identifying the correct scale to use for any given song??Up until now I thought that the major scale covered everything but apparently that's not true. Now true enough, most gospel songs sound the same with the root 3, 5 and the maj7 chord but every now and then , I come across a song where the major scale just doesn't seem to flow well. therefore, I'm making a special effort to become proficient with the minor and dominant scales.

Any advice would be appreciated.
My advice would be that - as a bass player you don't start out looking to play scales, but rather play the chord sequence - outlining the chords is the basic job of the bass line and not just random notes from a scale!
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  #6  
Old 12-23-2009, 03:54 PM
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Smile

Okay, I appreciate all of the advice given. I mainly play by ear so I think the advice of listening for the end note might work best for me.

I just figured out that some songs don't start off on the root note. Now that I look back on it, I realized that the problem I was having with some songs is that I would hear the beginning chord of a song and assume that was the root note. As a result I would try and fit that note into a scale and it just wouldn't gel.

So the problem for me was that I was not identifying the root note correctly. The scale really wasn't the problem.

I wouldn't have figured that out If it weren't for this site.
Perhaps I should become a supporting member.

Thanks again.
  #7  
Old 12-23-2009, 05:00 PM
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Playing by ear. OK...... How to find the scale used on a CD song. Listen to the CD, and walk the big E string or your piano keyboard one fret or one white or black note at a time. When what you are hearing on the CD and what you are doing come in sync - sound good together stop and sound that note several times as the CD plays over it. If it continues to sound good you have found the tonal center, thus the root of the scale.

Look at your fretboard or keyboard and see what note this happened on - that's your scale/key.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xABie...eature=related
This is in G. Walk up to G, go beyond G come back to G. See how it comes into sync with G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isl1Lk_-yw8
This one is in A. Do you agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5USg8_1gA
What is the key?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZGML...eature=related
How about this one? Same as above?

Play with this for awhile picking the key this way comes quickly just takes a little practice - once you've got it - you've got it.

Last edited by MalcolmAmos : 12-23-2009 at 05:22 PM.
  #8  
Old 12-24-2009, 12:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmknight1906 View Post

I wouldn't have figured that out If it weren't for this site.
Perhaps I should become a supporting member.
It's a huge resource... Support it, if you can afford it.
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I cannot hear an audible difference.
  #9  
Old 12-24-2009, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MalcolmAmos View Post
Playing by ear. OK...... How to find the scale used on a CD song. Listen to the CD, and walk the big E string or your piano keyboard one fret or one white or black note at a time. When what you are hearing on the CD and what you are doing come in sync - sound good together stop and sound that note several times as the CD plays over it. If it continues to sound good you have found the tonal center, thus the root of the scale.

Look at your fretboard or keyboard and see what note this happened on - that's your scale/key.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xABie...eature=related
This is in G. Walk up to G, go beyond G come back to G. See how it comes into sync with G.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Isl1Lk_-yw8
This one is in A. Do you agree?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fX5USg8_1gA
What is the key?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZGML...eature=related
How about this one? Same as above?

Play with this for awhile picking the key this way comes quickly just takes a little practice - once you've got it - you've got it.
wow! these tracks are hypnotising and great for solo practicing for lead and bass as well. Sounds like that funky, stankin down home louisianna bayou blues with a little bit of cayenne pepper and hot sauce on it. Reminds me of Samuel Jackson in Black Snake Moan
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