Whats the Difference between an A9 chord and an Aadd9 chord?

[AlphaMale]

Wow? Just when I thought I almost understand chord symbols I now know I know nothing.

[AlphaMale]

Okay I just googled and Apparently
A9 has to have a Dominant 7 but Aadd9 doesn't

[Oric]

An A9 chord has a seventh in there. When it's add9, you simply just add the ninth to the triad. When it's a number like 9, 11, or 13, you have to put in the seventh, ninth, whatever else in there also.

[DocBop]

or back in the Steely Dan days their mystery chord the Moo Major. It was just an Maj Add 9 chord. You will also see Add 2 chord. The other night backing a singer the chart had a G2 sus. As a bassist you are lucky you can just play the root if you don't understand.

[HaVIC5]

To some folks, especially in country music, the add9 and add2 are two different chords - the former is voiced with the 9 in the top voice, but the add2 is voiced underneath the third in an inner voice. To jazzers, where voicings can vary wildly for the same chord, this won't apply, but it's still nice to know.

[AlphaMale]

Originally Posted by DocBop

or back in the Steely Dan days their mystery chord the Moo Major. It was just an Maj Add 9 chord. You will also see Add 2 chord. The other night backing a singer the chart had a G2 sus. As a bassist you are lucky you can just play the root if you don't understand.

DocBop did you know that you know everything about theory?
I might as well have Pm'd this to you cause I know you would have known it.

[DocBop]

Originally Posted by AlphaMale

DocBop did you know that you know everything about theory?
I might as well have Pm'd this to you cause I know you would have known it.

I'm far from knowing everything about theory, I just know when to keep my mouth shut.

I don't know much about traditional theory only studied it a little. I have studied a lot of Jazz/Pop theory and Jazz improvisation. When I have time I do study some traditional theory, but I keep skipping to the section of the book on 20th Century harmony.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

To some folks, especially in country music, the add9 and add2 are two different chords - the former is voiced with the 9 in the top voice, but the add2 is voiced underneath the third in an inner voice. To jazzers, where voicings can vary wildly for the same chord, this won't apply, but it's still nice to know.

That's because the 2nd degree of a scale is a suspension in harmony. The 9th is tertian. They have quite different functions.

When you are dealing with the difference between an add9 chord and a 9th chord you have to take into account that when we see an A9 chord for example, we automatically assume that it has the degrees {1,3,5,b7,9}, likewise if we were to see the chord A11 we would assume it has the degrees {1,3,5,b7,9,11}. On the other hand A(add11) means that we would take the major triad only and add that degree without all the other assumed notes in between giving us {1,3,5,11}.

[HaVIC5]

That's because the 2nd degree of a scale is a suspension in harmony. The 9th is tertian. They have quite different functions.

Well, no, it's just an added scale degree, it's not being suspended because the third is present. You have to take into consideration the evolution of the chord in the context of its genre too when analyzing it. Originally that note, the add2, was an appogitura that moved up to the third, which mimiced how pedal steel players would slide into a major chord. Eventually this note was sustained with the third, and that became a sound unto itself. You could think of it as a "harmonic" or "sustained" appogiatura. That's how classical theorists often talk about the tertian extensions of the 9th, 11th and 13th, because in classical music, that's very often how they are heard and function. In jazz, not so much, you hear them as coloration rather than melodic entities ossified in the harmony.

The 9th is tertian, yes, but as a matter of voicing in a jazz context, you can voice tertian pitch classes in any order and it will be the same chord quality. However, in other contexts, the chord symbol "add9" also implies a specific voicing, which chord symbols generally don't do in jazz music.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

Well, no, it's just an added scale degree, it's not being suspended because the third is present. You have to take into consideration the evolution of the chord in the context of its genre too when analyzing it. Originally that note, the add2, was an appogitura that moved up to the third, which mimiced how pedal steel players would slide into a major chord. Eventually this note was sustained with the third, and that became a sound unto itself. You could think of it as a "harmonic" or "sustained" appogiatura. That's how classical theorists often talk about the tertian extensions of the 9th, 11th and 13th, because in classical music, that's very often how they are heard and function. In jazz, not so much, you hear them as coloration rather than melodic entities ossified in the harmony.

The 9th is tertian, yes, but as a matter of voicing in a jazz context, you can voice tertian pitch classes in any order and it will be the same chord quality. However, in other contexts, the chord symbol "add9" also implies a specific voicing, which chord symbols generally don't do in jazz music.

Fair enough. In that regard I will agree with you.

[EADG mx]

Originally Posted by AlphaMale

Okay I just googled and Apparently
A9 has to have a Dominant 7 but Aadd9 doesn't

A9 is a dominant 7 with an extension (9)

A C# E G B

Aadd9 is an A major triad with an added 9 (get it?)

A C# E B

[LowBSix]

A9 has a major 7th
The Add9 chord is a regular triad with the 9th added

[Pacman]

Originally Posted by LowBSix

A9 has a major 7th

No it doesn't. as has already been stated - it's a dominant 7.

[HaVIC5]

I think the poster has had his question sufficiently answered. Which means we now need to go into a debate that is utterly meaningless and just confuses the hell out of the OP. Let's see how we can go about this...hmmm...

[LowBSix]

Originally Posted by Pacman

No it doesn't. as has already been stated - it's a dominant 7.

U R correct grasshoppa!

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

I think the poster has had his question sufficiently answered. Which means we now need to go into a debate that is utterly meaningless and just confuses the hell out of the OP. Let's see how we can go about this...hmmm...

You can't blame me this time....