What's the difference between the harmonic, melodic and Aeolian minor scales?

Fassa Albrecht · #1 12-12-2011, 03:49 PM

Seriously, what's the actual purpose of each of these three modes? I can understand they're all minor modes, but why is there three of them?

I. Hate. Modes.

**Freddels** · #2 12-12-2011, 05:00 PM

One note.

kb9wyz · #3 12-12-2011, 05:05 PM

That and melodic and harmonic minors are not modes.

MalcolmAmos · #4 12-12-2011, 05:20 PM

Good ole Google... http://www.musictheorysite.com/minor-scales/

JTE · #5 12-12-2011, 05:34 PM

Natural minor is W H W W H W W. It's also the diatonic major scale with the 3, 6, and 7 flatted a half step. It sounds minor and if melody is all you're looking at it works fine. The problem is that when you harmonize the scale, the chords don't pull you to the 1, but rather to the 3. It's easy to see if you look at the A natural minor scale harmonized...

G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C
A B C D E F G A

Those stacks of notes are the chords that occur naturally in the A natural minor scale. They also happen to be the same chords as the key of C major. If you look at the chord built on G, you see it's G7. That chord pulls your ear to CMaj7, not to the Amin7 which is the one chord. So, the natural minor scale was altered slightly for harmonic reasons. Raising the 7th note of the scale a half step gives you something pretty cool-

G# A B C D E F G#
E F G# A B C D E
C D E F G# A B C
A B C D E F G# A

NOW your four of the chords are different. First, the G7 is now G#diminished, and doesn't pull you to the C. And the C chord is now Caug, not a common sound your ear feels has resolution. Plus, the Emin7 is now an E7, and that pulls you to the one chord, the Amin. It gives you chords that pull you to the tonic of the scale. And because the alteration to the natural minor was done to fix the harmony, this scale is called the Harmonic minor.

However, that scale sounds a little weird because the minor 3 between F and G# jars the ear a bit (and sounds like instant Ritchie Blackmore too...). So to smooth things out, they raised the 6th a half step too, making it F#. That has some impact on the chords, but retains the essential E7 to Amin pull, and smooths out the melodies. So, it's called the Melodic minor.

John

sammyp · #6 12-12-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kb9wyz

That and melodic and harmonic minors are not modes.

right! the Melodic and Harmonic minors,the later more commonly in classical music are scale/chord/ family entities on there own ....like the major scale.

A song, in the classical sense, is in a minor key when it is using the notes and chords derived from the harmonic minor scale!

The Aeolian is a mode that is dervied from the major scale. It's the 6th mode which comes off the relative minor chord in a major key....IE C major - Am.

Aeolian mode = pure minor scale = natural minor scale

kr0n · #7 12-13-2011, 03:20 AM

So refreshing to see WHY instead of HOW.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

Natural minor is W H W W H W W. It's also the diatonic major scale with the 3, 6, and 7 flatted a half step. It sounds minor and if melody is all you're looking at it works fine. The problem is that when you harmonize the scale, the chords don't pull you to the 1, but rather to the 3. It's easy to see if you look at the A natural minor scale harmonized...

G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C
A B C D E F G A

Those stacks of notes are the chords that occur naturally in the A natural minor scale. They also happen to be the same chords as the key of C major. If you look at the chord built on G, you see it's G7. That chord pulls your ear to CMaj7, not to the Amin7 which is the one chord. So, the natural minor scale was altered slightly for harmonic reasons. Raising the 7th note of the scale a half step gives you something pretty cool-

G# A B C D E F G#
E F G# A B C D E
C D E F G# A B C
A B C D E F G# A

NOW your four of the chords are different. First, the G7 is now G#diminished, and doesn't pull you to the C. And the C chord is now Caug, not a common sound your ear feels has resolution. Plus, the Emin7 is now an E7, and that pulls you to the one chord, the Amin. It gives you chords that pull you to the tonic of the scale. And because the alteration to the natural minor was done to fix the harmony, this scale is called the Harmonic minor.

However, that scale sounds a little weird because the minor 3 between F and G# jars the ear a bit (and sounds like instant Ritchie Blackmore too...). So to smooth things out, they raised the 6th a half step too, making it F#. That has some impact on the chords, but retains the essential E7 to Amin pull, and smooths out the melodies. So, it's called the Melodic minor.

John

Fassa Albrecht · #8 12-13-2011, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

Natural minor is W H W W H W W. It's also the diatonic major scale with the 3, 6, and 7 flatted a half step. It sounds minor and if melody is all you're looking at it works fine. The problem is that when you harmonize the scale, the chords don't pull you to the 1, but rather to the 3. It's easy to see if you look at the A natural minor scale harmonized...

G A B C D E F G
E F G A B C D E
C D E F G A B C
A B C D E F G A

Those stacks of notes are the chords that occur naturally in the A natural minor scale. They also happen to be the same chords as the key of C major. If you look at the chord built on G, you see it's G7. That chord pulls your ear to CMaj7, not to the Amin7 which is the one chord. So, the natural minor scale was altered slightly for harmonic reasons. Raising the 7th note of the scale a half step gives you something pretty cool-

G# A B C D E F G#
E F G# A B C D E
C D E F G# A B C
A B C D E F G# A

NOW your four of the chords are different. First, the G7 is now G#diminished, and doesn't pull you to the C. And the C chord is now Caug, not a common sound your ear feels has resolution. Plus, the Emin7 is now an E7, and that pulls you to the one chord, the Amin. It gives you chords that pull you to the tonic of the scale. And because the alteration to the natural minor was done to fix the harmony, this scale is called the Harmonic minor.

However, that scale sounds a little weird because the minor 3 between F and G# jars the ear a bit (and sounds like instant Ritchie Blackmore too...). So to smooth things out, they raised the 6th a half step too, making it F#. That has some impact on the chords, but retains the essential E7 to Amin pull, and smooths out the melodies. So, it's called the Melodic minor.

John

This is possibly one of the best posts on TB ever. <3

ryco · #9 12-14-2011, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

However, that scale sounds a little weird because the minor 3 between F and G# jars the ear a bit (and sounds like instant Ritchie Blackmore too...). So to smooth things out, they raised the 6th a half step too, making it F#. That has some impact on the chords, but retains the essential E7 to Amin pull, and smooths out the melodies. So, it's called the Melodic minor.

John

I thought Melodic Minor was developed so Mozart could write Minor i-IV-V7 blues

Nice post, John!

joebar · #10 12-14-2011, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fassa Albrecht

This is possibly one of the best posts on TB ever. <3

+1 excellent illustration. what fassa said

Johannes Oehl · #11 12-15-2011, 06:53 AM

I am dealing with jazz chord progressions here:

Jazz Harmonielehre - johannes-oehls Jimdo-Page!

If you are playing an IIm7b5-V7-Im with an Im7 or Immaj7 chord, you need the harmonic minor scale!

The aeolian scale has no V7 chord!

For example Am aeolian:

Im7 (a-c-e-g)

IIm7b5 (b-d-f-a)

Vm7 (e-g-b-d)

The V7 chord comes from A harmonic minor!

(a-b-c-d-e-f-g#)

V7 (e-g#-h-d)

The scale you play on the V7 in a minor II-V-I progression is called "HM5" (harmonic minor 5):

e-f-g#-a-b-c-d