Whats that scale?

f'nar f'nar · #1 06-19-2008, 05:19 AM

I'm looking for a scale with a certain sound I've heard around but am unable to really find the name of.

The sound it gives is VERY distinct. If you've ever seen the movie Queen of the Damned the violins throughout the movie play in this scale. For those who haven't, Living Syndication also have a song called 13 minutes that seems to have the same similar sound and almost sounds inspired by the melodies from Queen of the Damned.

Thanks in advance if you could help me out!

fretlessman71 · #2 06-19-2008, 05:36 AM

Sounds like B Phrygian to me. Listening to it on YouTube right now - 13 minutes, that is. Of course, it's only the chords of a certain section that are going through that scale - the guitar solo is clearly using straight minor (also known as Aeolian). Or maybe there's a certain part of the song you're talking about...?

f'nar f'nar · #3 06-19-2008, 06:01 AM

Thanks for the help, but I'm referring to the violin line... or maybe its a fiddle? I don't know... It seems to me that I have in fact got a remix of the song and am listening to that...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUOOfJ1w3FE

that is a clip from queen of the damned with a perfect rendition of the key/scale

fretlessman71 · #4 06-19-2008, 06:06 AM

Aha! That makes more sense. There are a few names for it; I've heard it called a Gypsy scale, and I'm sure there's a real name for it, but I always just think of it as "Major Phrygian". This one in the clip is also in B, and the notes go B, C, D#, E, F#, G, A, B.

I call it Major Phrygian, because if you take the Phrygian mode (minor scale w/ a b2) and raise the 3rd to a major 3rd interval, this is the scale you get. It also happens to be the "5th mode" of E Harmonic Minor, if you choose to think of it that way.

HTH.

f'nar f'nar · #5 06-19-2008, 06:08 AM

Thanks a lot man, you've helped me out heaps. Your a champ!

fretlessman71 · #6 06-19-2008, 06:10 AM

Maybe it's Hungarian...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nx2PLdDPbZo&NR=1

Hoover · #7 06-19-2008, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fretlessman71

It also happens to be the "5th mode" of E Harmonic Minor, if you choose to think of it that way.

One of the advantages of choosing to think of it that way -- or for that matter, thinking of any modal collection as a "rotation" of a single identical interval sequence -- is that you don't get bogged down trying to remember arcane and uninformative names for all these scales!

DocBop · #8 06-19-2008, 09:10 AM

Sounds Middle Eastern to me. Try playing around with a half-whole diminished and put emphasis on the half-steps in the scale.

steverosati · #9 06-19-2008, 09:14 AM

Spanish Phrygian

bonzo4880 · #10 06-19-2008, 09:41 AM

nah, definitely a Peruvian altered dominant minor

steverosati · #11 06-19-2008, 09:52 AM

root b2 major3 4 5 minor6 and major7 Oct try it it work over to Dom7 chords a half step
C Db E F G Ab B C
apart like "well you needn't" where the A section of the tune is a half step movement, F7 to Gb7 or it just gives you that middle eastern sound.

fretlessman71 · #12 06-19-2008, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

One of the advantages of choosing to think of it that way -- or for that matter, thinking of any modal collection as a "rotation" of a single identical interval sequence -- is that you don't get bogged down trying to remember arcane and uninformative names for all these scales!

+1. We're all playing the same 12 notes in this hemisphere; just how complicated are we going to try to make it anyway?

fretlessman71 · #13 06-19-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steverosati

Spanish Phrygian

I knew there was an exotic name for it. It's even mentioned in the Real Book for a Chick Corea song - Spain, maybe?

steverosati · #14 06-19-2008, 10:12 AM

There are several names for this I like the spanish phry name, it is just 2 major seventh chords a half step apart, but it has a nice exotic sound. if you so wish to use it.

DocBop · #15 06-19-2008, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

One of the advantages of choosing to think of it that way -- or for that matter, thinking of any modal collection as a "rotation" of a single identical interval sequence -- is that you don't get bogged down trying to remember arcane and uninformative names for all these scales!

Having a common label makes communication between musicians easier no different than saying Major or Minor scale. What's easier to say when talking about some line. Play G mixolydian or saying play a C major scale from the 5th degree and emphasize the notes of a G7 chord. Naming things just make life simpler and most of theory is about naming things so they are easier for communication and to catalog for reuse later.

MarkTAW · #16 06-19-2008, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hoover

One of the advantages of choosing to think of it that way -- or for that matter, thinking of any modal collection as a "rotation" of a single identical interval sequence -- is that you don't get bogged down trying to remember arcane and uninformative names for all these scales!

Bah! Better to think of it as two stacked tetrachords than as a rotation of a single scale. It's more flexible that way and can accommodate a wider range of possibilities. There are more than just 7 possible modes, you know.

Hoover · #17 06-19-2008, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DocBop

Having a common label makes communication between musicians easier no different than saying Major or Minor scale. What's easier to say when talking about some line. Play G mixolydian or saying play a C major scale from the 5th degree and emphasize the notes of a G7 chord. Naming things just make life simpler and most of theory is about naming things so they are easier for communication and to catalog for reuse later.

Right, but the operative word there is common. Terms like "Mixolydian" and "Harmonic Minor" have been in use for centuries, and any musician with a half semester of Theory 101 knows what they mean. "Hungarian Minor"? "Spanish Phrygian"? "Second-Order Super-Lochrian" ? You probably couldn't find two PhDs who would agree on what those scales are! They're not part of the common vocabulary of all musicians.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkTAW

Bah! Better to think of it as two stacked tetrachords than as a rotation of a single scale. It's more flexible that way and can accommodate a wider range of possibilities.

While I wouldn't necessarily agree that it's more flexible that way, I do agree that thinking of it in those terms suggests more interesting possibilities...probably because of our propensity to think of scales as linear sequences rather than unordered pitch class collections.

fretlessman71 · #18 06-19-2008, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by steverosati

There are several names for this I like the spanish phry name, it is just 2 major seventh chords a half step apart, but it has a nice exotic sound. if you so wish to use it.

Almost. Doesn't this scale have a b7?

I know there's a scale that does just what you described; I'm just not sure it's this one. Maybe THAT'S the Hungarian scale... or Neapolitan, or Peruvian, or maybe it's the Rhodesian Ridgeback mode, heck, *I* don't know. I do what a previous poster said - I identify the scales by the intervals themselves, and the name means little to me.