whats your take on theory?

[overtheedge86]

I've been playing with a new band recently, they've got some good riffs and i like their style. We go through about 5 songs, right now im basicaly playing root notes until i can find the right accents to go in their.

I had a hard time trying to figure out what scale/key they are playing in and they looked at me puzzled like i was speaking latin. This got me to thinking, did i waste a bunch of time learing theory. I know it can't hurt to know, but so many people don't even know what it is, it does me no good to know it, when the people i jam with don't use it.

Aside from that, if i don't have a scale or anything to go buy how should i make my lines fit, should i try something like 5th's or b7th's along with the root note? Am i at least on the right track?

[tonedeaf]

I know the basics of theory, and am working toward the more advanced stuff. I find myself in the same boat a lot of times, playing with people who don't know anything about theory and can't tell me what key a song is in.

I've found that with a little listening and what I know about theory, I can usually figure out everything I would ask them without asking.

Theory + ears is a winning combination. I'm trying to work on both.

As far as what to play, my approach when I first started playing was to sort of sing a bassline in my head, then figure out how to play it. Recording your practice sessions will help with this. After playing for a while, started to kind of "feel" where to go during a given song. It's a great feeling the first time you can sit in with an established band and play along decently with songs you've never heard before.

[Pruitt]

Originally Posted by tonedeaf

Theory + ears is a winning combination. I'm trying to work on both.

+1,000,000,000

[JimmyM]

1. If you're asking questions like that, then you didn't really learn that much theory.

2. The circles that you're in musically right now may not use it, but as you improve and get better, you will be moving in higher circles where people actually use it.

3. You are on the right track. Just experiment a little more and don't be afraid to play something that's total crap. If it doesn't work, try something else.

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

3. You are on the right track. Just experiment a little more and don't be afraid to play something that's total crap. If it doesn't work, try something else.

+1 That's how theory was invented after all. People just playing what felt right. After a while there were conventions and traditions.... someone felt the need (J. P. Ramou?) to write down and everyone has either been following the rules or trying something new since.

[Freddels]

You can never know too much theory. Knowledge is power and it will free you up.

You can usually tell which key something is in by knowing which accidentals you're playing. Is the B flatted? yes. Is the E flatted? No. Probably in key of F major.

You say to yourself, hey I just played an F#, a G natural and a C# in that bassline. So there's a good chance that the key is D major.

The more you know about theory and the better you know your fretboard, the better you will be able to play.

[cowsgomoo]

Originally Posted by overtheedge86

so many people don't even know what it is, it does me no good to know it, when the people i jam with don't use it.

with respect, that's the most ignorant thing i've heard in a while on this forum...

knowledge of theory along with a well developed EAR... will enable you to recognize what they're doing and play something appropriate... they don't need to know theory in order for YOU to hear what they're doing

just because the guys you play with don't know theory doesn't mean that it's worthless...

your job is to HEAR what they're doing and play something appropriate... what THEY know or don't know is irrelevant

it's like a trainee dog handler claiming that learning about dog training is pointless because "the dogs don't know anything about dog handling"

NEVER put yourself in a position where you have to rely on someone else (especially a guitarist) to be able to tell you what's going on in the music... that's like asking the dog to tell you how to train it

[arcellus]

I'd just like to chime in and offer my support for all of the replies here. Theory is something you've got to know to have a really rewarding musical experience, and it's something you never stop learning.

Playing with people who don't know what they're doing just makes your own understanding even more important - if they can't tell you what key they're playing in, and you can't hear it and figure it out, everybody's lost. At least if you've got your own knowledge you can follow along and maybe teach 'em a few things

[NickyBass]

Just because other people don't inderstand it, doesn't mean that you don't need it. It's knowledge that YOU are using, not them. You need to chose your own path, and not let others dictate it.

I hate when I read an interview with a famous bassist in some B.S. band, and they talk about how theory and technique get in the way on the emotion. That is the most ignorant thing that I've heard. What they're really saying is 'I'm too lazy to sit down and learn my instrument, but, since I want to sound deep, I'm going to come up with a bogus excuse. '

[CElton]

You would also probably do well in both gaining theory and more chops by playing with musicians who are more advanced than you. It forces you to keep up. You can also learn a few tricks...

[overtheedge86]

Originally Posted by cowsgomoo

with respect, that's the most ignorant thing i've heard in a while on this forum...

knowledge of theory along with a well developed EAR... will enable you to recognize what they're doing and play something appropriate... they don't need to know theory in order for YOU to hear what they're doing

just because the guys you play with don't know theory doesn't mean that it's worthless...

your job is to HEAR what they're doing and play something appropriate... what THEY know or don't know is irrelevant

it's like a trainee dog handler claiming that learning about dog training is pointless because "the dogs don't know anything about dog handling"

NEVER put yourself in a position where you have to rely on someone else (especially a guitarist) to be able to tell you what's going on in the music... that's like asking the dog to tell you how to train it

ok i admit, alot of the original post was written out of frustration, sorry for the ignorance. Im new to theory and trying my best to aply what i know wherever i can.

like OP1964 said, maybe i can learn better and faster around more knowledgable people

[T-MOST]

Knowing theory is a valuable thing especially "if" you are working with people who know what you are talking about. However, knowing something for your "own" musical growth is priceless!

[beyondhairy]

i dont know much theory, i know very limited theory, my lead guitar player is really really into theory, scales, modes, keys, and all that fun stuff, but sometimes it gets too technical lol,

[Lorenzini]

If you want to be a true pro, understand music theory WELL and learn to read sheet music. Piss on tabs.
At LEAST learn about keys, scales and common chord progressions in rock, jazz, latin music... Learn what a II-V-I is. All of this will enhance even the simplest of music.

Anything else is amateur level.

[tonedeaf]

+1 on learning to read standard notation. It will open you up to a lot of opportunities to learn new things and get paid.

I have a day job, but I do a couple of theater gigs every year and even if the music is not my cup of tea, it pays well, I couldn't do it if I couldn't read, and I always learn a LOT from the experience of practicing and playing the shows.

[Readymade]

i played saxophone for about seven years before bass, and the learning curve was severely reduced for me from what i had heard some people say of it. music theory transfers from instrument to instrument. standard notation is always useful too. even if you don't plan on playing bass for the rest of your life, these are good things to know and basically neccessary for playing music at all.

[theshadow2001]

Theory is useful. If other people don't have it can be annoying having to work out what key/chords they are using. However if you've a good ear you can do the working out a lot more efficiently.

Originally Posted by beyondhairy

i dont know much theory, i know very limited theory, my lead guitar player is really really into theory, scales, modes, keys, and all that fun stuff, but sometimes it gets too technical lol,

This is what I'm talking about. Im sure it can be quite frustrating at times for that guitarist to communicate his ideas if beyond hairy doesn't know what he's talking about

I think you can be a weekend warrior and have no theory and get by just fine. But how many professionals have no theory? How many jazzers have no theory. I suppose your level of theory is good a reflection on how far you want to take your playing and the gigs you want to land.

You want to do theatre gig your going to need to read. If you want to be a session musician your going to need theory and be able to read music and charts. If your gigs constantly changing doing all of the above plus subbing in bands in alsorts of situations your going to need to be flexible enough to be able to take what ever comes at you. Charts, notation, communication with others via theory, have the ear to communicate musically with those that have no theory.

What you learn and what you don't learn is up to you and how far you want to take your playing. With that all said with anything in life knowledge is no load to bare. It can't hurt to know at least the basics.

[steve66]

Learning to read music has helped me to learn theory. Songs are so much easier to learn once you know just the basics

Circle of fifths
Major/ Minor/ 7th chords/ tones

the chord tones in each key/relationship
chromatic, Pentatonic scales/ runs/ modes

[dave64o]

Wow, if none of your bandmates knows anything about theory I can't imagine how they can possibly play anything together. Think of theory as being the language - IOW without some kind of common language it will be very difficult to communicate your musical ideas to each other. If that continues I predict the band will break up out of simple frustration.

I'm happy that all the replies so far have strongly urged you to continue learning theory. Sometimes you'll see people jump in and say they'd rather play by feel because applying theory will make their music soulless. BS!!! That reason is a simple cover for being too lazy to learn it.

That might sound like a bold statement, and a pretty jugdemental one at that, but I speak from my own experience. I do NOT claim to be a theory expert, but I can tell you how beginning to learn some theory began opening up windows for me. I can play songs I never would have learned otherwise, I began working with a guitarist friend writing and recording original songs, and also began jamming with him on songs he already knew and I had to learn. And what was the key to that growth? Our good friend, theory!

Anyway, learn all you can. If you stick with these guys for a while you'll begin to look like a god to them. And as others have said, you may also find yourself outgrowing them and looking for a band more worthy of your growing talents. Then you may find something even better beginning to happen - other better bands will be seeking YOU out to join THEM. How cool would THAT be?!?!?

[ryco]

My take on theory is I'll take all I can get. It's the language of music