When should I use an altered scale?

[IconBasser]

hello all. I've recently learned the altered scale (aka superlocrian), and it sounds really cool. My only question is when is it appropriate to use it? I read on some random guitar website that you can use them when going from a dominant to a minor chord.

Do they mean going from a C7 to a Cmin? or a C7 to a Dmin?

please explain, I'd like to be able to employ this scale.

[Phil Smith]

Deploy it where it sounds best, that's the golden rule for when to play it.

[HaVIC5]

Dominant resolving to minor tonic.

C7 to Fm7, Fm6, or Fm(maj7)

[Pacman]

Altered (or not - depending on the sound you want) dominant moving to the tonic, major or minor key. In a minor key the dominant will be an altered chord, and in a major key it might be altered....

[slybass3000]

Aebersold would use the chord symbol A+9 which for him means an augmented fifth and and augmented ninth. I personally don't like this way of writing an altered chord because it gets confused with a chord that fits the whole-tone scale (A9 with an augmented fifth).

So, the other way you could see this chord on a chart is A+7(#9) or A+7(b9). The use of the + in the chord symbol is a simpler way to indicates to the bass player that the fifth is alterded so we can easily play a b5 and/or an #5 for that chord. You don't have to go in the brackets to see if the 5th is alterded. It is faster to read especially if you see something like this A7(#5,b9,#11) as an example.

Sometimes in fake books you'll see only A7 alt. which means the same thing so it is up to the players to use the extensions and the voicings that they want as long that the 5th and the 9th are alterded. This is not very precise.

If you want to solo with this scale,use a passing tone between the two fifths. So on the A7 alt you would play A,G,F,E,Eb,C#,C,Bb and A. This gives you an 8 notes scale and makes all the right notes fall on the downbeats.

As a soloist you can use this scale on any dominant chord that resolves on a major or minor I. It depends on how far you want to stretch the extensions or tensions. Be careful not to use it on chords with a natural 9th in it.

As a bass player don't overuse the alterded 5ths on chords that are not altered especially if it resolves on a major chord.

Hope this helps,

Sylvain

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Phil Smith

Deploy it where it sounds best, that's the golden rule for when to play it.

That's the only answer - when it's the sound you are hearing that fits with what's going on and that you want to deploy and feel confident about using!

[IconBasser]

thanks for the help guys, that about clears it up for me!

[HaVIC5]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

That's the only answer - when it's the sound you are hearing that fits with what's going on and that you want to deploy and feel confident about using!

True, but how do you get comfortable with the sound? Saying "play what sounds best" is good and all, but it doesn't really do you any good if aren't familiar with a certain sound. Learning the "tried and true" methods of where a sound will work will help you try and figure out how you want to exploit that sound in your own music making.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

True, but how do you get comfortable with the sound?

But that wasn't the question asked...

Maybe you have to realise what question you need to ask, before you can get the answers you need...?

[JimmyM]

Or maybe you need to know the answer before you ask the question.



Anyway, the specific answers given are great ideas, but Phil is ultimately the most right. Still, I can't see the harm in giving specific examples of where it would work.

[Bruce Lindfield]

That's another philosophical point - when you ask a question - do you want the answer that most closely or correctly answers it - or do you just want some vague help in that area?

Also - is the most correct answer, the most helpful...?

I think that's the value of a teacher - who, having assessed your playing can give you want you need to know/hear rather than answer the question you think you need answered!!

[JimmyM]

Bruce, are you arguing with yourself? Or just being philosophical? Or did you stop 'round the pub during lunch?

[ryco]

OP: Whenever you want to hear a b2, #2, #4, #5 in your dominant chord, or a super locrian scale