Where's the magic in this...?

[shooter]

I am trying to figure where the "magic" is in the following note order on the bass fretboard.

ADGCF A#,D#,G#,C#,F# B E A

Allegedly there is a pattern in there somewhere...but I dont get it.

Supposedly if one learns the "magic" pattern , one has learnt the position of the notes on the fretboard.

[Drifta]

typically, I just go by the pattern that say, you play g on the E string.

It is played on the 3rd fret.

Go down 2 strings, and move two frets to the right, and you have G on the D string on the 5th fret.

also, say you were playing that same note, G, on the 5th fret of the D string, if you wanted to play it on the A string, you would move your hand over 5 frets and play it on the 10th fret of the A string.

hope this helps.

[onlyclave]

C G D A E B F# C# G# D# A# F

If that's the "magic pattern" you're talking about it's just the circle of fifths. No magic about it, it's just how all 12 notes of the chromatic scale relate to each other 7 semitones apart.

[Bruce Lindfield]

There are no shortcuts, no magic bullets with music - it's just a case of practice and applying theory.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by shooter

I am trying to figure where the "magic" is in the following note order on the bass fretboard.

ADGCF A#,D#,G#,C#,F# B E A

Allegedly there is a pattern in there somewhere...but I dont get it.

Looks like you were copying down the circle of fourths in class while looking out the window.

 D#  G#  C#  F# B E A D G C F Bb  Eb  Ab  Db 
(Eb)(Ab)(Db)(Gb)             (A#)(D#)(G#)(C#)

[mutedeity]

I would love to see someone discuss the circle of 4ths and 5ths in a context that was about more than how it's a handy way to memorise keysignatures.

[Bruce Lindfield]

It's a handy tool for writing middle 8s or bridges in 32 bar Jazz tunes!

[BackwaterBass]

The movement of a perfect 5th up (aka a perfect 4th down) is the most fundamental progression in Western tonal music. In a sense, any chord progression is just an embellishment on a I-V-I pattern. This is what our ears "want" to hear, and its because of the way that music is organized. So basically the cycle/circle of fifths/fourths is what has shaped almost every song you've ever heard or ever will hear. If you want to hear some music that by design does NOT follow this (Atonality), check out some Stravinsky or Schönburg. Crazy stuff.

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

I would love to see someone discuss the circle of 4ths and 5ths in a context that was about more than how it's a handy way to memorise keysignatures.

It's a neat trick for modulation.

You're writing in C major and want to add some interest... drop in an Am, hit an D7 and you're suddenly in G major.

[Rickett Customs]

If any of those notes are magic, everybody'd be a bassplayer.
Theres nothing magical about it, it's music theory that gives you the magic

/Jason

[BassChuck]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

It's a handy tool for writing middle 8s or bridges in 32 bar Jazz tunes!

Amen. Take a look at the bridge to "I've Got Rhythm".

[JTE]

There AIN'T NO MAGIC. If you beleive that crap, you're too lazy to be a bass player.

OK, you've got a butcherd version of the circle of fifths. And that like others have said, HEARING that pull to the next chord in a cycle is a huge help in learning songs and faking things on stage.

jte

[HaVIC5]

Root motion in descending fifths is the strongest there is in tonal music, and therefore the most common. You'll very often find chord progressions with strings of descending fifths, but comparatively rarer to find strings of ascending thirds, or descending fourths, or descending seconds for example. Tonal gravity is based upon the interval of a fifth.

[shooter]

Quote "There AIN'T NO MAGIC. If you beleive that crap, you're too lazy to be a bass player."

I am working very hard to learn Bass and currently focussing on learning where all the notes are on the fretboard. To this end I leave no stone unturned , will try everything and thats why I asked the question. The sequence in question came from 'fret2fret' (small software application) that I took a look at. (I bought it for $28 actually !)

The claim, associated with a very weird memory technique, was this magic sequence of notes could be found on the fretboard and it aided learning the position of all the notes.

To me it was unfathomable and badly explained and maybe you guys have confirmed that for me it is useless advice.

I feel ripped off actually (www.fret2fret.com)

[dlloyd]

Originally Posted by shooter

To me it was unfathomable and badly explained and maybe you guys have confirmed that for me it is useless advice.

I feel ripped off actually (www.fret2fret.com)

Anybody familiar with the Fret2Fret site?

The only real way to learn the fretboard is by memorising the notes through hard work.

Here's a way to do it that doesn't cost any money:

Make up two sets of flashcards. One with note names, one with string names.

Start with just the natural notes for the note name cards:

A B C D E F G

Put them in a bag.

Put the string name cards (E, A, D and G) in another bag.

Give the bags a shake.

Pull out a card from each bag... find the note.

Repeat until you've got it down.

Then add the sharps, and once you've got them down, add the flats.

[JTE]

Here's how I teach people to learn the names of the notes all over the neck. Start with a major scale, say G major. Learn the notes by playing them in one position while SINGING the names of the notes. But also do this by playing the scale up one string only. Then once you know that scale all over the neck, find the root on every possible location. Then find the fifth of that note in every possible location. Now you know exactly where G and D are all over. So add the third of the G. Now you've got three of the 12 notes and you're a fourth of the way through this. But because you've now SEEN the relationship between 1 and 5, you can find the fifth of the D note you already know. That gives you A all over the neck. Add the third of D and you've got F#. And the fifth of that is...

I find this much more productive for LEARNING the notes than the random aspect of the flash card thing. Once you learn them, then using the flash card (or something similar, like having someone call the notes at random) is a great test of where you are, but to LEARN I think you need something more structured. Plus this helps keep the notes in a musical context. You're going to playing music built largley upon roots and fifths so putting them together helps you learn MUSIC rather than the bass.

It's a difference between being a musician who plays bass and just being a bass player.

jte

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by JTE

Here's how I teach people to learn the names of the notes all over the neck. Start with a major scale, say G major. Learn the notes by playing them in one position while SINGING the names of the notes. But also do this by playing the scale up one string only. Then once you know that scale all over the neck, find the root on every possible location. Then find the fifth of that note in every possible location. Now you know exactly where G and D are all over. So add the third of the G. Now you've got three of the 12 notes and you're a fourth of the way through this. But because you've now SEEN the relationship between 1 and 5, you can find the fifth of the D note you already know. That gives you A all over the neck. Add the third of D and you've got F#. And the fifth of that is...

I find this much more productive for LEARNING the notes than the random aspect of the flash card thing. Once you learn them, then using the flash card (or something similar, like having someone call the notes at random) is a great test of where you are, but to LEARN I think you need something more structured. Plus this helps keep the notes in a musical context. You're going to playing music built largley upon roots and fifths so putting them together helps you learn MUSIC rather than the bass.

It's a difference between being a musician who plays bass and just being a bass player.

jte

I don't get how the major scale has anything to do with learning the fretboard. The fretboard isn't divided up by the major scale, it's divided by even tempering. You might use the major scale to explain what a 5th is. For example it is the interval beteen the tonic and the 5th note of the major scale played from the tonic. You might even relate notes to each other as 5ths C to G, G to D, D to A and so on. I don't see how that helps anyone to remember that C is found on the third fret of the "A" string, though.

[BackwaterBass]

Originally Posted by mutedeity

I don't see how that helps anyone to remember that C is found on the third fret of the "A" string, though.

Because once you study the theory and practice it enough it becomes natural to you. You will know that C is a major 3rd up from A, and that a major 3rd is 4 semitones, so you go Open-1-2-3 and there's your C. Or if you know your chromatic scale you'll know that the A string goes A-Bb-B-C-Db-D-etc. Learning major/minor scale patterns and such makes this even easier to just know where the intervals are in relation to each other without having to count out the steps, especially large intervals like a 6th or an octave.

[mutedeity]

Originally Posted by BackwaterBass

Because once you study the theory and practice it enough it becomes natural to you. You will know that C is a major 3rd up from A, and that a major 3rd is 4 semitones, so you go Open-1-2-3 and there's your C. Or if you know your chromatic scale you'll know that the A string goes A-Bb-B-C-Db-D-etc. Learning major/minor scale patterns and such makes this even easier to just know where the intervals are in relation to each other without having to count out the steps, especially large intervals like a 6th or an octave.

I don't think you read the whole post. The fretboard is divided by even tempering, not the major scale. You are talking about interval relationships not note recognition. Trust me I know what diatonic theory is about. Learning the to identify where notes are on the fretboard is like learning how to type. You don't read the dictionary in order to know where you put your fingers on a keyboard.

[Rune Bivrin]

Originally Posted by BackwaterBass

Because once you study the theory and practice it enough it becomes natural to you. You will know that C is a major 3rd up from A, and that a major 3rd is 4 semitones, so you go Open-1-2-3 and there's your C. Or if you know your chromatic scale you'll know that the A string goes A-Bb-B-C-Db-D-etc. Learning major/minor scale patterns and such makes this even easier to just know where the intervals are in relation to each other without having to count out the steps, especially large intervals like a 6th or an octave.

I won't pretend to be an expert on theory, but I've been convinced for 20+ years that C is a minor third up from A, which is 3 semitones. Still, I'd use 3rd fret on the A string, just like you...