Why Jeff Berlin is Mostly Right On

[djlufkin]

I was highly amused to read JB's confession in the January Bass Player, where in he sort of apologized for offending players over the years with his somewhat direct tone and no-nonsense approach. Berlin is, ofcourse, an old school pro (I first saw him live almost 30 years ago with Bill Bruford) who has spent more time than most teaching aspiring bassists, most of whom have as a goal, being professional players. The reality, of course, is that the vast majority of bass players out there will never be pros (it's a basic supply and demand issue) just like most of the kids in the Suzuki class will never be professional violinists. Berlin, however, takes players at their word, and treats them as equals, and assumes that they really want to be top players. Rather than offer short cuts and nonsense, aimed at patronizing players who may or may not have what it takes, he lays down the facts as they apply to gigging in the real world. You won't play sessions and jazz outside of your own basement unless you learn to read music (there are a few exceptions). You won't learn time by playing with a metronome. You won't get gigs by tapping. etc. etc.

We're in a world now where the top bassists are supported largely by an audience of aspiring bassists who love to play, and buy all the equipment and CD's etc. Some of us are above average players, most are not. It's all good. But to use a boxing metaphor that Berlin would appreciate, don't get into the ring with a pro unless you're ready to get hit.

Peace and out...dj

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by djlufkin

I was highly amused to read JB's confession in the January Bass Player, where in he sort of apologized for offending players over the years with his somewhat direct tone and no-nonsense approach.

Yup - I think we can vouch for that round here!!

[guy n. cognito]

Was that an apology? I read it more as "you silly people misunderstood what I was doing, so now I'll dumb it down for you." Mind you, I don't think he needed to apoligize. I was actually a bit disappointed that he backpeddled the way he did. I still don't agree with his teaching methods.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Well you can regret upsetting people without feeling the need to apologise for anything!!

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Well you can regret upsetting people without feeling the need to apologise for anything!!

Especially if your livelyhood depends on it.

[dougjwray]

I've never understood his position against practicing sight-reading with a metronome for this reason: In the "real world", you have to keep moving foreward while you're sight-reading (no stopping or slowing down); how do you prepare yourself for this without using a metronome? (I would agree that becoming over-dependent on a metronome isn't good, though. And practicing with one won't necessarily help your "feel.")

[rockstarbassist]

The best thing ever was in the Feb. issue with BX3 on the cover, and it lists Berlin's gear with comments from Sheehan and Hamm, commenting on Berlin's .40-.100 Carl Thompson strings:
Sheehan: "Well no wonder you don't believe in hand exercises Jeff! With strings that small, you'd never need them!"
Hamm: "Jazz weenie."



Thought it was great... Sorry but I "practice" without my bass all the time. I tend to drive a lot, as I for one live in Texas, and it takes 100+mi's to get ANYwhere, and it really relaxes me to be honest with you and I hit my two plucking fingers either on my center console at an angle or on the steering wheel for a lot of music, especially if it matches up to the kick. Helps me with muscle memory on a song a WHOLE lot. Anyhow, I think he said that cause he realizes there's OTHER ways to do stuff... More than one way to skin a cat, etc.. Anything you do that makes you better, do it.
I for one play mostly rock stuff, where people could care less about the proper "positioning" of your fretting hand...

[giglawyer]

I used to have a teacher that said "practice does not make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect." I think that was what Berlin was saying. A lot of methods "work," but he thinks (right or wrong) that he has developed a proven method for long term professional development.

Personally, I wish I had the time just to practice an hour a day, perfectly or not!

[fcleff]

For the record, I think that Berlin is entitled to whatever opinion he wants. While I have never had a lesson with him I don't doubt his ability to teach. He just uses his own tried and true methods. The fact is, when it comes time to play, he delivers. I'll take his playing over Sheehan or Hamm anyday. I don't knock them as players; they can deliver, too. I just prefer Berlin's style.

I saw Berlin do a clinic many years ago. He is a genius. He wasn't especially nice (I overheard him say some things on his way out) and that left a sour taste in my mouth. But he delivered and I walked away with some information that is still with me to this day; a good teacher will do that.

[rockstarbassist]

I like Stu myself. Guy can jam either solo or as the foundation for Satch, he rules!

[SuperDuck]

I'm still kind of put off by the whole "I'm getting annoyed by you people so I'm going to not only leave Talkbass but delete every post in my forum" debacle.

[Bruce Lindfield]

More like : I don't need this kind of abuse - why should people who do this kind of thing benefit?

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

I'm still kind of put off by the whole "I'm getting annoyed by you people so I'm going to not only leave Talkbass but delete every post in my forum" debacle.

Before my time I guess, but seemingly fits his personality.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

I'm still kind of put off by the whole "I'm getting annoyed by you people so I'm going to not only leave Talkbass but delete every post in my forum" debacle.

I don't think it was like this really - I saw all the posts and Jeff was basically being hounded by certain members.

He said he didn't have time to explain in depth, but that if people came to his classes he would say exactly the same thing and demonstrate why he was right!

It was complicated by that fact that due to Jeff being very busy, his fellow pro and friend Dann Glenn was co-moderating the forum and saw it as his job to "watch Jeff's back"...

So - Dann would chip in with stuff and deleted a lot of posts - I'm not sure Jeff ever deleted posts - he said he didn't have time - Dann did it for him.

[fcleff]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

I'm still kind of put off by the whole "I'm getting annoyed by you people so I'm going to not only leave Talkbass but delete every post in my forum" debacle.

At first I didn't get this but after reading on I gather that Jeff used to contribute to the forums here on TB. It sounds like he then threw a little tantrum and stormed off. Is this correct?

[SuperDuck]

Yeah, he had his own "Ask a Pro" forum. Him and Dann Glenn both got into it with some members and left.

[rockstarbassist]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

Yeah, he had his own "Ask a Pro" forum. Him and Dann Glenn both got into it with some members and left.

Dan Glenn... that's that "you're not a bass player if you use a pick" clown isn't it?

[fcleff]

Originally Posted by SuperDuck

Yeah, he had his own "Ask a Pro" forum. Him and Dann Glenn both got into it with some members and left.

That sounds pretty much in character. But like I said earlier, I really admire not just his playing, but his overall musicianship. The guy can deliver. I don't always agree with his teaching methods but people don't always agree with mine. The attitude is a bummer, though.

[Ed Fuqua]

You won't learn time by playing with a metronome.

I, personally, know that this is an incorrect assertion because I, personally, have done so.

[Dr. Cheese]

Although I am pretty weak in terms of formal training, I love Jeff Berlin. Young guys need to know exactly what it takes to be a consistently working pro. As a teacher, I know students often don't want to hear what they need to know or what they really need to work on to improve.