In wich key is this chord progression??

Music_for_life · #1 10-06-2011, 12:42 AM

Composing with the piano I´ve got this chord progression..I don´t know which key is in...
F#m7-B7-Dmaj-C6

Do you know other tunes that share a similar progression?

BassChuck · #2 10-06-2011, 04:50 AM

As I play through it, I'm drawn to the key of "B". But what does that matter? If you like the progression use it. What good does 'knowing the key' do?

Ed Fuqua · #3 10-06-2011, 06:06 AM

It's not in one key.

Music_for_life · #4 10-06-2011, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

It's not in one key.

In which keys it is???

Music_for_life · #5 10-06-2011, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassChuck

As I play through it, I'm drawn to the key of "B". But what does that matter? If you like the progression use it. What good does 'knowing the key' do?

I would like to know the theory behind it and if my analisis is correct

FretlessMainly · #6 10-06-2011, 09:22 AM

F#-7 B7 is II V in the key of E Major. After that, it's ambiguous; D Maj could be I in D Maj, IV in A Maj and C6 could actually be an A-7 or I in CMaj or IV in GMaj - there's not enough "standard" movement to the changes to allow for a proper harmonic analysis.

So basically, it's Rock and Roll. Nothing wrong with that, btw.

mambo4 · #7 10-06-2011, 10:02 AM

It's not strictly in one key. Hearing the progression played context would indicate a lot.
I am tempted to view C6 as functioning like a Amin7 (1st inversion , 3rd in the bass) as well.

It's ambiguous but I'm tempted to look at it as D major, with alteration to the B min (vi) chord making it a VI7, and alteration to the a A major (IV) chord, making it Amin (1st inv)

The use of identifying a key is to identify further choices for what comes next.

But it's all about context. Can't make a practical assessment without hearing where those chords go in the rhythm.

FretlessMainly · #8 10-06-2011, 11:34 AM

It could be that the B7 is functioning as a VI7 chord, but it doesn't really act that way since it resolves to a DMaj rather than an EMaj. So, the tonality of DMaj is really departed from by use of the B7 chord.

I'd just chalk it up to good old garage-style rock and roll. You can over-analyze it to the point of trying to establish some commonality, but that's an exercise in diminishing returns in this case. Not a criticism; it just is what it is.

fep · #9 10-06-2011, 12:16 PM

B7 to D doesn't work for me... of course this is subjective.

I tried playing with it and this came out, it's in Bmaj to my ear

Code:

F#m7  B7 | D/E  C/D | Bmaj7 |     |
F#m7  B7 | G#m7 C#7 | D/E  C/D | Bmaj7 |

FretlessMainly · #10 10-06-2011, 12:34 PM

Just to be clear, none of the chords in the OP's progression are in B Major.

And the only chord in your first example that is in B Major is BMaj7. In your second example, there are only two chords in B Major: G#-7 and BMaj7. Just because you tossed a BMaj7 in there as a "resolution," you can't say that any of this is in B Major.

JTE · #11 10-06-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Music_for_life

Composing with the piano I´ve got this chord progression..I don´t know which key is in...
F#m7-B7-Dmaj-C6

Do you know other tunes that share a similar progression?

Had you looked at the chord tones, you'd have immediately seen that the whole progression can't be in one key.
F#min7 F# A C# E
B7 B D# F# A
Dmaj D F# A
C6 C E G A

B7 occurs naturally only in the key of E major. So, the F#min7 would be the ii of E, and you have a ii V in E. But the key of E has a D#, not a D natural, so your D chord moves you out of key of E. And the C6 has C natural even though your first chord has a C#. No way to narrowly define this as all in one key.

As stated above, does it really matter? You've got a clear ii V going on at the beginning, then the last two could be thought of as V IV in G. Without a melody, or even knowing the voicings used, the SOUND is hard to define so a real analysis is impossible.

John
John

**bassybill** · #12 10-06-2011, 01:45 PM

It's in whatever key you find convenient. Keys are convenient and conventional. Powerful, but not absolute. Some music seems to be definitely in a particular key, some seems to be in no key at all. Many examples are something of a compromise, and this is one of them. In some cases, keys are as much a matter of choices about notation as anything else.

I would guess (not knowing the tune) that F#m would be a useful key to consider for this progression, and the C6 is accidental but fits with what the musicians want to be going on at that point.

fep · #13 10-06-2011, 02:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

Just to be clear, none of the chords in the OP's progression are in B Major.

And the only chord in your first example that is in B Major is BMaj7. In your second example, there are only two chords in B Major: G#-7 and BMaj7. Just because you tossed a BMaj7 in there as a "resolution," you can't say that any of this is in B Major.

You've got to step away from the theory and just use your ear.

BTW, my example was one example not two.

I should have mentioned I don't think of keys, I think chords and tonal centers. I should have said, the tonal center is B to my ear.

To me a key is just a notation convenience and/or an indication of the predominant tonal center. I play jazz, there are very few jazz tunes where all the chords are diatonic to one key. But that doesn't mean they are always modulating to another key.

Cmaj7 Bm7b5 Bb7b5 Am7 Ab7b5 G7 Db9 Cmaj9

What key is that? It's clearly in C (C tonal Center and I'd use a key signature of Cmajor) even though most of the chords contain notes outside of the key. There is no modulation here. If you want the college theory terms, there are tonicizations and substitutions but not modulations. But that's just a bunch of mumbo jumbo, just use your ear.

panda bass · #14 10-06-2011, 03:59 PM

It is in the key of i. I as in it doesn't matter as long as it sounds good.

BassmanSBK · #15 10-06-2011, 04:08 PM

Folks, you're not thinking here. The chord progression is in a key: chromatic. Come to think of it, all the best grooves are in that key.

armybass · #16 10-06-2011, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FretlessMainly

F#-7 B7 is II V in the key of E Major. After that, it's ambiguous; D Maj could be I in D Maj, IV in A Maj and C6 could actually be an A-7 or I in CMaj or IV in GMaj - there's not enough "standard" movement to the changes to allow for a proper harmonic analysis.

So basically, it's Rock and Roll. Nothing wrong with that, btw.

Bingo....what he said!

tstone · #17 10-06-2011, 05:23 PM

It's not purely tonal music, but not that much music is nowadays.

To me, it sits rather nicely in the key of F# minor with some mode mixing, that is, chords that would normally be major become minor, and vice-versa. Thinking along those lines, and recasting the C6 as an Am7, it would be seen as a i7 - IV7 - VI - iii7.

The opening two chords remind me of the F#m7 - B9 groove that is played to death in jazz and Latin music. Typical example of mode mixing.

Of course, the analysis tends to hinge on what the "home" chord or note is. If this progression were in a complete composition, what chord would it end or fade out on? Only the composer can tell us that.

agreatheight · #18 10-06-2011, 05:59 PM

Tstone is on to it.

When things get complicated, get simple: Where does it resolve? If I am assume it resolves to the first chord, then to me it's in F#m.

Do I get a cookie?

FretlessMainly · #19 10-06-2011, 07:01 PM

Where the changes resolve does not necessarily indicate the key that the changes are in - at best it indicates the general tonal center in this case. I don't get a great sense of F#- because of the C6 or A-7 chord, but yes, F#- is a general center (as is E Major).

But this isn't what the OP asked. The OP asked what key the progression is in, and the only real correct answer is that it isn't in one key, and other than E Major or F# minor, it is ambiguous what the other keys are. I'm assuming that the reason the question was asked would be to decide which scale(s) to use to write a melodic line. A tonal center is of little use in that context. If it's to compose a bassline, the key isn't really relevant, as there is enough chord tone and even non-chord tone (C6) information to compose a line.

Let's complicate this even more; here's a bassline:

| F#-/C# B7/B | Dmaj/A C6/G | - so is the center G whole tone or G lydian?

MustacheJoeII · #20 10-06-2011, 10:31 PM

There are so many ways that this could go. What I'm seeing is more of a bridge or middle eight that draws the ear away. This progression is not something that's strictly in a set key, so I wouldn't lead with it unless the intent was to start the listener's ear with a sense of ambiguity.

What I want to know is if the C6 is a Cmaj with an A added, or a Cmaj with an E in the bass, since both can be written as C6.

Either way, I'm reading it is A major, with this sequence of chords being pre-dominant. The B7 is a V/V in A, and the C with an E in bass easily repeats for emphasis or resolves to Emaj. A C with an A added can become a c# or c#7 before resolving to Emaj.

Like I said, this can go anyway you want to with the right resolves. This is just the way that I'm reading it, and I think that you've got a nice little something to pull out when a song needs it. I wouldn't necessarily make that the main riff, but it's a good pattern for the middle.

Post Script: the lowercase c's are not typos, they are actually what can be written C#min or C#m; they are, indeed, minor chord shorthand.