Is it worth the 20 grand and 4 years of education?

[UnderDogbassist]

my goal after high school is to go to cappilano university (in vancouver, B.C.) and take the Bachelor in Jazz Studies course. just to be quick with prices its about 5000 a year, so 4x5000=20 g's. what really gives me a headache is that i know the music business is quite a gamble, whether it be rock pop or jazz. is it worth all the time and money to take a course that could alls well be just a waste? and if so, am i screwed for life? i know for a fact that slipknot's drummer has a degree in jazz and it has really paid off for him, but he's one of many drummers that have gotten degrees in jazz. my high school education has been focused on getting into this course, or a similar one, and it's gonna be quite pricey to take extra time to get my courses for say, business school, so in conclusion do you guys think it would be worth getting this experience, or should i just kiss my goals goodbye and go do something that i could buy a house with.

[M0ses]

If you are committed to plying music for a living, I say do it. Just make sure you gig your butt off every night, too. You will also have to ignore GAS for a very long time. And, of course, you could not make it. But I for one believe in dreams.

[Tim C.]

Originally Posted by UnderDogbassist

just to be quick with prices its about 5000 a year, so 4x5000=20 g's.

That's just the cost of school. You have to include the cost of living, which can get expensive. You also have to consider "opportunity costs", i.e. money you would have made if you had not gone this particular route. Costs of going to school far exceed costs of tuition alone.

[Ric5]

Most people who play aren't able to make a living playing music. Jazz is a really small portion of the music market.

[low5_er]

good luck figuring that one out!! Dude, I wish I would have asked myself that question when I was your age. Now I'm married (happily, I might add), with a family of four kids, wouldn't trade it for the world, but man, I wish I'd gotten some serious bass schooling and bought some serious gear when I had the chance. My suggestion is to do what your heart loves, but keep your eyes on the future too. Hard work can accomplish a lot for you, and smart investments here and there when your own cost of living is less (ie, when you are single and can live in a closet). FYI, though, if you ever invite a lady into your life, you're gonna need that house, and unless she's your groupie, you're gonna need to be around. Just be smart. Make up a plan, and stick to it. Most of the time, it all pans out anyway.

[Muaguana]

I had a teacher who got his doctorate in saxophone performance. He's teaching community college classes and gigging most nights of the week. You can't expect much from a bachelor's degree; those are primarily for paving the way to a master's or a doctorate - the former of which you need at the very least to teach, and the latter is almost an imperative for colleges and universities.

You can make money in other ways, too; you can land gigs in orchestras, be a studio musician, start your own jazz band (like one of my bass teachers, who also regularly works with the aforementioned horn player,) or take your jazz chops and apply them to other music styles and join a more mainstream group. You can make a comfortable living doing these things, and with your degrees you'll always have a fallback plan with teaching. I've known several people who love music and have invested all their time and money into an education in it, and they're doing well.

The thing is, you can't expect to become a millionaire. The music industry has changed big time, and the way things are now, it's a bit easier to make money from your music, but much harder to make rock-star-levels of money. But music is an art, and shouldn't be about the money. If music is what you love to do, go for it. If you want more financial security, get a more practical degree as a backup and pursue music outside of your formal education. I've been in college 3 years and I'm still making my mind up what I'm going to do.

[jnevi9nr]

a lot of successful musicians didnt understand the odds they would have to overcome to be successful. if they did, a lot of them would not have done it. if music is your first love and you are passionate, you will be successful. that goes for any career. the people that are most successful in life take their career very serious and are passionate.

[Tim C.]

Originally Posted by jnevi9nr

the people that are most successful in life take their career very serious and are passionate.

WRONG!

They are also good at it. Don't forget the skill level. Passion has nothing to do with success - alot of very rich people hate their jobs. If you suck at something, you will not make money doing it regardless of how much you love it.

[Terracite]

After dropping out of university, I persued music with everything I had for a few years. I have nothing material to show for it, and my only claim to fame is that I was able to support myself with music for a while.

Later I went back to school (a few times,) and now have a wife, and 3 kids. (+ a good paying job, mortgage, etc.)

I am able to dedicate myself to my family and current career BECAUSE I took my shot. And I won't die wondering what if.

[waleross]

I understand your problem. What everybody is saying is quite true. I was a good bass player but not on the jazz combo level. I know now ( 60) that there were 10,000 players better than I was. I never got my teaching degree. Instead I took a government job and quit music etc. Ok that's my story (play the violins) . There are some that everybody knows that were real good and destined to greatness. They are the ones in life that practice day and night (10,000 hours) from a young age and make it in their chosen profession. A music degree helps you to start your career and make initial connections but the rest is up to you. I knew a trombone player (jazz,classical) toured with Stan Kenton and others. He was better than most others on a national level, eventually settled down to teach high school .got tired of the road life and ran into me at my county job. He said that he wished he had a day job like mine. Don't know if he meant it the grass always looks greener on the other side but some lessons cost more than others.....Nothing more to add.....good luck to you....

[bassdoubler]

Originally Posted by Terracite

After dropping out of university, I persued music with everything I had for a few years. I have nothing material to show for it, and my only claim to fame is that I was able to support myself with music for a while.

Later I went back to school (a few times,) and now have a wife, and 3 kids. (+ a good paying job, mortgage, etc.)

I am able to dedicate myself to my family and current career BECAUSE I took my shot. And I won't die wondering what if.

That's still cool even if you didn't MAKE it....

my story is similar in the beginning, but I'm not that far along yet. I went to NYU for classical double bass and dropped out after my junior year. I immediately stumbled into the lower manhattan hip-hop scene, and just started gigging. Since then, I've broken into several other music scenes, and quickly climbed the ladder of being that "first call" guy. I've toured around the world with some very famous musicians and my own project has seen some pretty good success. AND I make enough to live comfortably in NYC which is quite a feat! haha....of course, it may get to a point where I want to make more money to support a family and what not, but if music is as much your passion as it is mine, do what you love man. Life is short. If it fails, pick up and try something else, but you'll always have music.

But do I think it's worth it to pay for music school? ABSOLUTELY NOT!! If I could do it again, I would have just moved to NYC, taken lessons with one if not several badass famous NYC bassists, and started gigging back THEN....if you're good, and you're not a dick, that's all people care about....all the knowledge you'll ever need about music is waiting to be discovered on the gig. Just my 2....

[Slaine01]

Four years of study = trade skill
Plumber, Electrician, Builder etc will set you up for life, Musician?..........
Sad fact but true.
I have a great friend who studied Dance for 7 years both ballet and contemporary, man, can she dance - only option she had was to set up her own dance school which she struggles with ( when financially the economy isnt looking to good people pull their kids out of things like this)

Problem is - what is there to do with your "Music" trade once you have completed your training (some may argue you never really finish training in music..)
I have/know many players who have amazing qualifications in music academically but only a few make ends meet actually using those skills to support either themselves or their family.
Perhaps its that I am a little older - 46 (been playing since I was 13) - that I can see this as an important aspect in decisions I made over the years - My dream was always to study at The Conservatorium or Music College but I was always gigging a lot, for basically very little money,and doing day jobs to survive and never had the opportunity to commit to full time study.
That "I wish I had...." glazed over long distance stare is a b*%$#$

Tough decision for you - I wish you all the best if you go through with the study option , I can tell its your passion but if you are going to do it - then do it now, as many here will probably agree having kids possibly a little way down the line changes your perspective on things especially fiancially! and touring wise.

just my *2 cents worth

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by Slaine01

Four years of study = trade skill
Plumber, Electrician, Builder etc will set you up for life, Musician?..........
Sad fact but true.
I have a great friend who studied Dance for 7 years both ballet and contemporary, man, can she dance - only option she had was to set up her own dance school which she struggles with ( when financially the economy isnt looking to good people pull their kids out of things like this)

Problem is - what is there to do with your "Music" trade once you have completed your training (some may argue you never really finish training in music..)
I have/know many players who have amazing qualifications in music academically but only a few make ends meet actually using those skills to support either themselves or their family.
Perhaps its that I am a little older - 46 (been playing since I was 13) - that I can see this as an important aspect in decisions I made over the years - My dream was always to study at The Conservatorium or Music College but I was always gigging a lot, for basically very little money,and doing day jobs to survive and never had the opportunity to commit to full time study.
That "I wish I had...." glazed over long distance stare is a b*%$#$

Tough decision for you - I wish you all the best if you go through with the study option , I can tell its your passion but if you are going to do it - then do it now, as many here will probably agree having kids possibly a little way down the line changes your perspective on things especially fiancially! and touring wise.

just my *2 cents worth

+1

Being a musician very, very rarely pays. If you`re going to school do it for something like business, finance, engineering or something that`ll at least get you in the door to a possible job that`ll allow you to make a good decent living. That said, if this is what you really want to do then commit to it and do the best you can do.

[So Low Bass]

There is always something about the term “Jazz Studies” that seems like an oxymoron. Jazz is an ongoing, living thing… it can die once you start to dissect it.

*Is this school in a large city?
*Are you ready to learn piano on an intermediate level?
*Have you been studying theory?
*Do you play electric and upright?
*Do the faculty play jazz?
*Would you “study” jazz at the exclusion of all other music?
*Can you go HEAR faculty play in public?
*What percent of the music faculty is full time vs. adjunct?
*Are you in the Musicians Union?
*What do you want to be doing when you’re (gasp) 30?
*Do you want to live in a big city?
*How long have you been taking private lessons?
*What does your private teacher have to say?
*Can you read music and changes?
*Do you have to audition to get into this program?
*Does your guidance councilor have a clue, and if so, what does he/she say?
*Seriously, what is you attitude about drug use… can you work with people who are always high, or straight??

I always recommend getting a teaching certification, where you’ll exposed to ALL music. It’s a good living with benefits and you can play as much as you want after dark.

[dtiii]

Keep in mind that there are many ways to support yourself as a musician. The school degree opens doors that otherwise would or may not be open to you, so it is to your benefit. If you feel that music should be your life and you do it well and are willing to hustle then do it. I can say that it feels great to walk out the door loving what you will do that day.

[standupright]

Originally Posted by Tim C.

WRONG!

They are also good at it. Don't forget the skill level. Passion has nothing to do with success - alot of very rich people hate their jobs. If you suck at something, you will not make money doing it regardless of how much you love it.

in music....that is not necessarily so. pete wentz?

[standupright]

as for the OP. it's a very hard call and a tight gamble. the number of people that study music, and those that make money in their profession after study is very small. it's def not a guarantee. there are other degrees (while earning and understudy in music) that can better your odds at making a decent living. that way you have 2 things to work with.

[BassPenguin22]

U can always play music in ur spare time. But what do i know?

B.P

[Slaine01]

Originally Posted by standupright

as for the OP. it's a very hard call and a tight gamble. the number of people that study music, and those that make money in their profession after study is very small. it's def not a guarantee. there are other degrees (while earning and understudy in music) that can better your odds at making a decent living. that way you have 2 things to work with.

agreed

Get a business degree - then you can run your own club and play EVERY night..

[pedroims]

its all about what you want to do with your life, you can go there and make not much money, probably you will ended up living with your parents, no woman, no kids, no boat and not cottage, but living a happy life or go to a medicine school become a doctor, be millionare and live a frustrated life. Both have pros and cons