are you able to musically express yourself?

varunkapahi · #1 06-13-2011, 02:39 PM

how does one get to that level of musicianship where you feel like you are expressing yourself with every note you play? is that even possible when you are playing material which has already been written?

zachoff · #2 06-13-2011, 02:45 PM

With every note? Not a chance. What I'm doing right now w/ my band does express my musical wants & needs right now though.

I couldn't get that feeling of satisfaction from playing covers. However, crowds are generally more responsive to covers so if you thrive more from the reaction than the creation I'm sure you could get that feeling from playing covers.

pedroims · #3 06-13-2011, 02:45 PM

I think some people just born with that gift, I have couple of friends that they just get it, some other need practice and few other like me need alot of practice, I am starting to spend more time on the keyboard and planning to write a song

.... I know it will take the rest of the year to complete it but I am ok with that.

varunkapahi · #4 06-13-2011, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zachoff

With every note? Not a chance. What I'm doing right now w/ my band does express my musical wants & needs right now though.

I couldn't get that feeling of satisfaction from playing covers. However, crowds are generally more responsive to covers so if you thrive more from the reaction than the creation I'm sure you could get that feeling from playing covers.

i just realised, actually you can! with every note you play or every note you dont even with music which is already written because you bring in your own tone, articulation, feel, etc!

guess its time i find that music lesson book by victor wooten and read it again

tangentmusic · #5 06-13-2011, 02:55 PM

I think if you write your own music,then you are expressing yourself. Even if your tunes are simplistic. If you are in a cover band, taking liberties with the original arrangement can make it a bit more "your own".

mambo4 · #6 06-13-2011, 06:19 PM

I always loved Anthony Wellington's explanation in the appendix of Vic Wooten's groove workshop:
YouTube - ‪Anthony Wellington "Four Levels of Awareness" for a musician. From Victor Wooten:Groove Workshop‬&rlm;

kb9wyz · #7 06-13-2011, 06:40 PM

I play in a worship band, so EVERYTHING is a cover. But I have this habit of not caring what the original song does. So I just play whatever I feel, within the limits of my ability, and love it. I really do feel that I am able to musically express myself.

It's nice.

Already In Use · #8 06-13-2011, 06:42 PM

Nice videos...!!

**251** · #9 06-13-2011, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by varunkapahi

how does one get to that level of musicianship where you feel like you are expressing yourself with every note you play? is that even possible when you are playing material which has already been written?

Classical musicians do so every day so it must be possible. Have you tried playing JS Bach? with feeling?

OPBASSMAN1994 · #10 06-13-2011, 08:05 PM

Not alone, but when I have a song unfurl with the whole band, I can get into it and it takes off.

Liam Wald · #11 06-13-2011, 08:20 PM

I can say that I am at that point. I have been playing music for 46 years. The band I play in is all guys who are my age and have been playing all their lives. We don't use charts and we don't try to sound like anyone other than ourselves.
It's a great feeling to be at this point in music. Only problem is... it's getting hard to schlep the equipment!

sikamikanico · #12 06-13-2011, 09:28 PM

in a way, all material has already been written, it's just up to us to "discover" it... there is no originality in music in that sense, but still, every (human) performance is unique, original... a computer (MIDI for example) can play every song written, yet it is not expressing itself and is in fact not unique - every time, it's the same... (not to be confused with a human using a computer as an instrument, that's different)

i have not fully figured out (yet) what it means to express yourself, but from some experience and in theory, i believe it is in fact you NOT trying to express yourself - meaning, you're not standing in the way of music flowing through you... i believe the best music is a selfless act... pretty much what that guy Wellington in the video above says...

however, to NOT be in the way of the music flowing through you, you have to be (at least) two things - (1) open to channel the music through you; and (2) technically proficient. I think it is because we are so different in these two characteristics what makes each and everyone so unique... and it is also why two performances of the same song from the same artist are always different - there are variations in how we feel all the time. how we feel and openness are related, but are not necessarily the same; in fact, i would say that when we are open, our feelings can come ("shine") through and "express" themselves...

i already have a long post, so i might as well go further... i never tried to put these thoughts into words, so this is more of an exercise for myself, hehe

of the two (openness and technical proficiency), it is easier to get technically proficient, in a way... i believe that Western society has made a huge progress in the intellectual capacity, yet we are unbalanced - we are lacking in our emotional capacity. We are trained in reason and logic, which I believe largely drive technical proficiency (which is why it is easier for us). We are great at analyzing.. in understanding what works and how it works... what we are lacking is determining why something works and how to make something new that will work... what we do is trial and error, but that produces a lot of waste...

the other part i believe lies in the emotional sphere (note: i may be using bad terminology here, i'm not a native english spreaker). it is what we feel, what our values are, what we believe in... when we try to control our emotions with reason, we fail... the same goes when we try to use reason to play music - at best, it recreates something old, something we already know and understand (we put into practice something we already analyzed). we have to learn to be open or free so that our emotions can shine through... i think (but do not know really) that civilizations we might consider primitive are excelling at this, but not necessarily all members of "primitive" societies achieve greatness in emotional openness (the same as we cannot say that all members of a Western society are masters of reason and intellect)...

so, to let your emotions shine, to "express yourself", your reason has to step aside. reason has a role (practicing, analyzing), but not in every aspect of music (or life, for that matter)...

for example, look at songwriting. popular music is full of recycled stuff. this is where reason is prevailing in songwriting. a lot of it is also performed without feeling - by people who try to control every aspect of music. only the best performers can take an average-written song and make it great...

another example... i remember hearing a comparison between two Motown bassists - Jamerson and Babbitt. What Jamerson did was he took an idea and never played it the same twice - a true genious. What Babbitt did was took one pattern, and repeated it, but with variations (still great, but not the same level as Jamerson). Both great players, both enjoyable, but on different levels...

it's kind of like comparing pop and jazz... both can be good, if feelings shine through, but on completely different levels...

anyway, this is a long explanation, but no simple answer can be given...

Russell L · #13 06-14-2011, 06:35 AM

Yes, I can. It's called articulation, and it's the very thing that gets me in the groove, or the feeling, if you will. In practice, the longer I play continuously, the better if gets. But, live, I find that it takes longer to get to where I wanna be since I have to stop with each tune. But, I'm getting better at "getting there" sooner all the time.

I've been playing music since I was three-years-old (no kidding), beginning with piano, then guitar and clarinet at 13, bass at 15. I discovered the feeling in music at age 8 when I let my mind wander one night while playing piano for hours while staring at a photo of the Grand Canyon sitting in front of my face. It was like the "Om" in transcendental meditation. As soon as I realized it, it vaporized. But, it put me on the quest to see how to recreate that feeling. It was so good. I also spent hours as a child laying on the couch with my eyes closed listening to my parents' records, including classical music. I'd try to imagine my own images, regardless of what the music was really about. (Stravinsky's Firebird Suite was especially good for that). I would do that after school every day while it was just me at home. Then, my brother came along when I was 11, but I had the basis for understanding the power of music by then. Now, to this day, when I play I feel everything

mambo4 · #14 06-14-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sikamikanico

anyway, this is a long explanation, but no simple answer can be given...

Actually I thought your answer was quite simple and direct, and I fully agree. To truly musically express your self you have to:

1.) master the mechanical aspects of execution to the point where explicit conscious thought is not required to play it

2.) silence your mind, listen, and respond to the music with your emotions, breath, heart and body.
It's a vulnerable thing to do, so you need the comfort and safety of having mastered the physical mechanics to let the emotions come out.

This can be done at any degree of skill, too. you just have to know the part you're playing -and listen.

---
I think many players reach the point of 1.) above and then "get bored" with the music.
That's when they start judging pieces they encounter in terms of complexity and sophistication,
identifying something like a simple blues or country riff as "beneath" them...I think that's a big mistake.
The less you have to worry about the technical complexity of a piece,
the more opportunity to listen and respond with real feeling and emotion
- rather than using up all your awareness making sure your fingers go where they're supposed to.

It's true that there's not much pedagogy for the mental side of music, but there are a few places to look.
The Art of Practicing and the Inner Game of Music are 2 books that come to mind.

30hrz · #15 06-14-2011, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mambo4

I always loved Anthony Wellington's explanation in the appendix of Vic Wooten's groove workshop:
YouTube - ‪Anthony Wellington "Four Levels of Awareness" for a musician. From Victor Wooten:Groove Workshop‬&rlm;

Kinda reminds me of what Bruce Lee said at first a punch is just a punch then a punch is not just a punch finally to a punch just being a punch again.

LowDown Hal · #16 06-14-2011, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mambo4

I always loved Anthony Wellington's explanation in the appendix of Vic Wooten's groove workshop:
YouTube - ‪Anthony Wellington "Four Levels of Awareness" for a musician. From Victor Wooten:Groove Workshop‬&rlm;

I never heard that before.

I LIKED IT A LOT

mambo4 · #17 06-14-2011, 10:07 AM

Bruce Lee also said "consciousness of self is your greatest enemy" which also applies to music.

Russell L · #18 06-14-2011, 10:25 AM

Ever played to someone in the crowd?

kb9wyz · #19 06-14-2011, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 251

Have you tried playing JS Bach? with feeling?

Yup. And it feels really good. Of course the trick is to play it 1000 times without feeling until your hands go on autopilot and you can finally sit back and relax and just feel what you're trying to say with it.

Oh, and you're over the part where the creepy hand positions you're using because you decided to play piece written for cello doesn't play as easily on bass and so you had to spend the better part of three months building up muscles in your hands you would never normally use.

Billnc · #20 06-14-2011, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mambo4

This can be done at any degree of skill, too. you just have to know the part you're playing -and listen.

This. But it may be a sign of maturity and just going with I've got and continually adding to my tonal pallet. While playing bass I can usually get in 'the zone'. So I wonder sometimes, if I'm expressing myself, or playing to get into the 'zone' state of mind.