YOu ever have trouble with people walking on the bass line

pedullabass · #1 12-06-2010, 10:58 AM

I am really struggling with musicians that walk all over the bassline,. Heavy left handed keyboardist.. the guy almost duplicates my bassline plus adds some grace notes that i hate. I feel i have no flexiblity. Sometimes he sets the bassline different from what I like before i can estiblish it. The bad part is we are paid to play and hes the bandleader! He has a music degree and knows his chords like you wouldnt believe but man what to do! Then I also experience a similar problem with the guitarist. He is out of this world great picker but kinda untamed and gets busy. I dont want to appear to complain all the time but i am really having to play very basic to stay out of there way and its no fun.

Schlyder · #2 12-06-2010, 11:02 AM

Just tell them that. I don't think that's too much to ask. If they are as good as you say, they should not get offended. They are probably unaware of what they are doing.

Ric5 · #3 12-06-2010, 11:14 AM

Find a band without a heavy handed keyboard player.

It sounds like he played too long without a bass player, and had to play the bass with his left hand.

JTE · #4 12-06-2010, 11:27 AM

I once started playing chords (chomping the 3 and b7 on 2 and 4) on a song because one of the guitarists started playing a bass line that was close, but not the same as what I was playing. I did it that way for about three weeks (we were gigging 5 nights a week) when he finally asked why. I said "Well, since you were playing a bass line, I figured I'd do the rhythm guitar part you weren't playing". And I once got fired from another band. Among the litany of my sins the leader talked about when he fired me was "and bass players shouldn't play chords" to which I replied, "Well, I figured SOMEONE should play the right one once in a while!"

True stories, but seriously, you gotta talk to them. Recording gigs/rehearsals is a great help with stuff like this. Sometimes the keys and bass exactly doubling the same line is great, other times it's lame. But you gotta work with the folks you have with the aim of making the BAND sound good. It's not nearly as important for the bass line to be cool, or the guitar part to be interesting, or the keyboard part to be full as it is for the BAND to sound good.

John

pedullabass · #5 12-06-2010, 11:57 AM

not many gigs in the area i live unfortunately. Its a Variety show theater. And we had 8 sold out shows in 3 days this weekend in a 300 seat theater. Not a bad gig for a guy 12 miles away that works a 40 a week job other than this.
So we are not just a bunch of guys getting together in a garage but not on the road either for some major artist.. I have mentioned several times that the keyboard bass is making it very hard for me to play my part. Hes very nice and says ok. But then nothing changes.
Guitar player is a super picker mainly on country stuff. He becomes busy in disco and Motown that require a groove. Seems he has trouble playing rythm instead of lead which in my oppion the bass becomes the lead instrument in Disco.

Hoover · #6 12-06-2010, 12:16 PM

Years ago I played in a band with a keyboard player who would often stomp all over my register with his left hand. I finally took a piece of gaffers tape and put it across the bottom octave of his DX-7. Told him "That's my turf. Keep out."

He got the message.

pedullabass · #7 12-06-2010, 12:20 PM

haha good idea.. i will write on the tape "these notes reserves for bass guitar please stay to the right of the line. One thing I did start doing playing my lines an octave higher. I dont think they liked it. It made it more obvious they were below me.

**jmattbassplaya** · #8 12-06-2010, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pedullabass

I am really struggling with musicians that walk all over the bassline,. Heavy left handed keyboardist.. the guy almost duplicates my bassline plus adds some grace notes that i hate. I feel i have no flexiblity. Sometimes he sets the bassline different from what I like before i can estiblish it. The bad part is we are paid to play and hes the bandleader! He has a music degree and knows his chords like you wouldnt believe but man what to do! Then I also experience a similar problem with the guitarist. He is out of this world great picker but kinda untamed and gets busy. I dont want to appear to complain all the time but i am really having to play very basic to stay out of there way and its no fun.

Kind of the opposite situation for me. The guy would hold out the roots of chords and it made it impossible for me to play anything else (especially passing tones and grace notes, which I wanted to use a lot since we were a funk band). I remember the band asking me one day why I didn't play more complicated lines and I told them it had to do with the keyboardist's left hand cramping my style

James Judson · #9 12-06-2010, 12:36 PM

Yes, I have had to tell the keyboard guy "the bass line goes like this". I don't really mind if someone else in the band is playing THE BASS LINE cuz that frees me up to do something else. Musicians say this but few have the concept "less is more".

pedullabass · #10 12-06-2010, 12:38 PM

i love what this guy says, page 52. I emailed it to the keyboard player. "just because you can play the bassline doesnt mean you should"

http://books.google.com/books?id=wPw...page&q&f=false

pedullabass · #11 12-06-2010, 12:45 PM

true James. I have a saying I have never shared with anyone. " Hey you sound great but could I hear a little more air?"

MikeBass · #12 12-06-2010, 12:53 PM

I've set a pair of cutters I use on my strings on my keyboard players board.
Said "I use these to snip off left hand pinky, ring and sometimes middle fingers of keyboard players"...........

Seems to work.

BassChuck · #13 12-06-2010, 04:51 PM

Even if the KB player is the boss, you gotta tell him that the low end is your territory and to get out. Simple question, 'if you're the boss and you're paying me, why do you do my work?"

fdeck · #14 12-06-2010, 05:36 PM

It might seem odd, but learning how to play in an ensemble doesn't seem to be part of the standard training for pianists. Many of them are unaware that playing with a bassist is different than without. They are accustomed to anchoring their chords with the root. Learning to play closer harmonies just a skill, plain and simple.

Tell the pianist to play like he's wearing handcuffs. Suggest that he should do some more listening.

jgore · #15 12-06-2010, 05:43 PM

As a bassist and a keyboardist myself too, the keyboard's hand left SHOULD be "conservative" when playing in a band with a bass player.

He may have whatever degree and be a master keyboardist, but that is totally different to being SOLIDARY "with the music" -in other words- "with the players".

BigOldHarry · #16 12-06-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric5

Find a band without a heavy handed keyboard player.

It sounds like he played too long without a bass player, and had to play the bass with his left hand.

Yeah, board players *can* be a real PITA.

GLEN18INCHSPICA · #17 12-06-2010, 05:45 PM

I played in a band with a keyboard player with a nice old Hammond & leslie rotating speaker cabinets. He didn't step on the bass parts too much but the sonic territory he filled made it hard to eq to poke through. I like playing in 3 piece bands the most.

Clark Dark · #18 12-06-2010, 05:49 PM

The keyboardist in the praise and worship band I'm in is still a mite heavy handed on the left side and even looks back at my rack tuner to see what I'm doing. LOL LOL LOL LOL
I tripped her up by going Jaco on her..Barbary Coast style, playing the rests, slurs and double stops until she stayed in her lane.

kesslari · #19 12-06-2010, 05:50 PM

I had it happen once recently.
I stopped playing.

The keyboard player looked at me and asked what I was doing, and I said, "well, since you're covering the bass part, I'm trying to think of a keyboard part I can manage on the bass".
He apologized, and got into a different octave and on a different part.

m_bisson · #20 12-06-2010, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kesslari

I had it happen once recently.
I stopped playing.

The keyboard player looked at me and asked what I was doing, and I said, "well, since you're covering the bass part, I'm trying to think of a keyboard part I can manage on the bass".
He apologized, and got into a different octave and on a different part.

Lol that one made me laugh.