Your method of "learning note for note by ear"?

[Damani311]

Not quite sure how to do this, I sit down with a song and it can easily have 1000 bass notes in it....how do you divide this into chunks to learn, and really make sure you've got it RIGHT? I mean, learning to transcribe by ear doesn't do you much good if you have no way to 'proofread' your work, does it?

[Ed Fuqua]

Ear training, ear training, ear training. You hear it clearly enough to sing it out, and understand what you're singing, sure you can. You just have to be able to hear chords with at least two tensions in all inversions and in open and closed position. Plus all the intervals in the first two octaves.
Or a reasonable facsimile...

[Chris K]

Ed is right on the dot telling you WHAT to learn. Í'll add my two cents for the HOW.

1. Play the melodies of simple songs you know (Happy Bithday To You or whatever), and sing them as you play, naming the intervals (5 - 6 -5 - 1 - 7 | 5 - 6 - 5 - 2 - 1). New songs every time, to rule out memory.
2. Use a slowdowner device to play complex lines - transcribe them on your computer using a program like Finale, Sibelius, Cubase. They allow you to play back what you wrote, for 'proof'.

[Ed Fuqua]

I've outlined a more consistent approach that doesn't rely on finding songs or even using your instrument a couple of times here on talkbass; if you SEARCH all posts by me, you should be able to find it.
You're not trying to learn how to hunt and peck better, you're trying to have musical information have specific, identifiable meaning for you.
You've got two things going on here, abstract and concrete. To use a roundball analogy, what CRISCO is talking about is running plays. What I'm talking about is practicing left handed jump shots from 15 feet outside the key on the far right of the court. And moving over a foot and doing it. And over a foot.
Playing basketball is great, but just playing does not focus your work on the skill sets you need to be a good player.

[TL5]

Hopefully I'm answering the right question:

When I learn a song, especially by ear I start by determining the arrangement then working out the basic chord progression.
Example: It's intro, Verse, Chorus, verse, chorus, solo, bridge, Chorus 2x, ending
Then I work out the progression to each section. Often times there's really less to learn than you initially think.

Usually, once the chords are blocked, the notes fall pretty naturally.
I suppose the style of music can really alter the approach.

[Toronto Bassist]

As far as the 'proofreading' part is concerned, I agree - if you're still learning the ins and outs of transcribing, then it can be difficult to see if you're making any errors or not. If you have a teacher, then it would be helpful to have them look over your transcription for any wrong notes.

[Dogbertday]

As far as proofreading... if it sounds wrong at all it is wrong... now your notes might be right but your timing or tone might be off.. it happens.. but until you can sing the part on the recording and then play it exactly the way you just sang, you're doing it wrong

[EADG mx]

Ear training -

Chords of all types, scales, modal structures, chord progressions, arpeggios.

Coupled with the theory behind it all, of course.

I can get more specific if you like.


Eventually you should come to a point where you will be able to pick any old song off the radio and know how to play it before it's through, or hear a melody and be able to play it by the time you get to your bass.

[Hookus]

Originally Posted by EADG mx

Eventually you should come to a point where you will be able to pick any old song off the radio and know how to play it before it's through, or hear a melody and be able to play it by the time you get to your bass.

That was how all the kids self-taught when I started playing in 1990. Turn on the radio, and jam along with whatever comes on.

[Memitim]

I just wish that I could train my ear to actually hear low notes. Unfortunately, my ears are pretty well shot, with the exception of very high pitched sounds. Having tried every trick that I can to isolate low notes enough to hear them in the mix, the best thing that I've found is to run a song that I know well through Slowdowner and then reference tab that someone else laid down to try and correlate the feel of the song to the notes they transcribed. That way the other person gives me a point of reference in relation to other songs with similar or same notes to narrow down what I'm hearing. I'm hoping that by doing that enough that I'll be able to make out bass lines despite not being able to consciously hear most of the notes. Maybe try that for a bit just to get used to associating the muddled sound you are currently hearing with the clean tone of the note as you play it until you get used to pick out the sounds on your own.

[NickInMesa]

Crash test bass playing is not that complicated, for most of the stuff (except where the bass line is signature, like in Another One Bites The Dust, or is essential to the song, like in Alive by Pearl Jam). Here is how I do it:

The main thing is this: if it is rock music, there is 75% chances the root note at a given moment is either G, C or D, 20% extra chances for A or E.

By experience you can build an ear for finding the correct root note pretty quickly.

After that, one good practice technique is to hum a bass line, or little bits, and then to try to reproduce it. Sometimes you think of the coolest bass lines, and doing that breaks habits and plateaus, by the way.

Once you have built that talent, it's pretty easy to figure out what's been played and to reproduce it. Hum it, either out loud or in your head, and play it.

Rock and pop music is repetitive by nature, so once you get the idea, you can play most of it and improv' cool fills when you can can't figure it out. I do that for all the GnR stuff, because on top of that McDuff never plays it twice the same.

Don't forget: Rock is silly Jazz.

[Peter_00]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

I've outlined a more consistent approach that doesn't rely on finding songs or even using your instrument a couple of times here on talkbass; if you SEARCH all posts by me, you should be able to find it.
You're not trying to learn how to hunt and peck better, you're trying to have musical information have specific, identifiable meaning for you.
You've got two things going on here, abstract and concrete. To use a roundball analogy, what CRISCO is talking about is running plays. What I'm talking about is practicing left handed jump shots from 15 feet outside the key on the far right of the court. And moving over a foot and doing it. And over a foot.
Playing basketball is great, but just playing does not focus your work on the skill sets you need to be a good player.

I wish I could study with Joe Solomon

I have found in my few years of learning to play jazz that so many players don't know how they got the skill sets they use which makes it really hard to teach! Physical approach lessons are much easier to come by as there is a well thought out system in the classical world but it seems that a great ear training teacher is so much harder to find. Some kind of online ear training course with real time audio and feedback would be great.

PS there is some Joe on youtube, on top of sounding great that guy looks pretty relaxed with the bass!

[sackvegas]

Great thread, I'll be trying some of this tonight

[Stumbo]

Try slowing down and isolating the bass to improve your learning curve and to "proof" your work. Speed it up as a test of what you learned.

Here's a pretty good looper/slow down/pitch shifter/isolator: BestPractice http://www.xs4all.nl/~mp2004/bp/

Here are some links for ear training programs/websites. The first one is downloadable and does intervals/chords and more.

~Ear training
Free downloadable ear trainer (basic/advanced) Solfege. Great program

Goodear.com
Test your ear
Free downloadable sing and learn treble/bass clef program
Trainers/tutorials. Music theory, ear training, read music, chords, intervals, etc.
Discussion of Solfege
Bassist's guide to singing
Taking transcribing to the next level

[Jim Nazium]

Originally Posted by Damani311

Not quite sure how to do this, I sit down with a song and it can easily have 1000 bass notes in it....how do you divide this into chunks to learn, and really make sure you've got it RIGHT? I mean, learning to transcribe by ear doesn't do you much good if you have no way to 'proofread' your work, does it?

If you're just starting to transcribe, don't pick a song with 1000 bass notes. Start with something really easy: Sunshine of Your Love, Iron Man, Smoke on the Water, Walking on the Moon, etc. Even if you don't like these songs, do it anyway for the practice and to build your confidence. Then move up to Beatles songs, etc. Save Teentown and What is Hip for later.

Play the recording and pause it when you hear the first bass note (or short phrase, 2-4 notes). Pause the recording and sing the note or phrase. Back up the recording and sing the phrase along with it; repeat until you get it right. Then pause the recording again, sing the first note and hold it, and find that note on you bass. Now you have the first note or phrase, repeat for the rest of the song.

At first it's hard, and involves a lot of trial and error. Over time, you'll recognize phrases or licks that are common, and you will start to recognize the root motion. Often a song that seems to have a very complicated bass part is really just a standard chord progression with some fills, and even the fills often come from pentatonic scales and aren't that hard to play.

Good luck and have fun.

[jeffreybar]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

Here are some links for ear training programs/websites. The first one is downloadable and does intervals/chords and more.

~Ear training
Free downloadable ear trainer (basic/advanced) Solfege. Great program

Question from someone who's never really been able to play by ear despite actually having a couple of semesters of theory in college (doh!): how do you start using this program in a directed and intelligent way? Guessing at notes seems to be just that...a fair degree of mindless fumbling, and what I do get is only due to a sort of higher/lower game because the program limits the tones to a single octave by default. I remember in theory class, the professor used to sing (or play on the piano) the root and then some interval, and I could get them by that, but when it's just a single tone alone, I'm lost.

[geezerharris]

i developed my ear by doing a simple thing: listening to music CONSTANTLY. i listen to songs no matter what im doing. also ive found out that once i pick up my bass and find the root note of the song, the rest comes quickly. playing and listening a lot is the main thing to develop your ear

[Rudreax]

Listen to whatever you're trying to learn until you can repeat either all or most of the song in your head on a whim (if you can sing/hum it, that's a plus). Then, just start trying to learn it.

[Drifta]

if i REALLy want to learn a song i learn it piece by piece. listen to the intro without bass in hand, hum it, try to figure out the chords thats being played, start figureing out notes. then move onto next part of song etc.