shipping to Russia?

froghat · #1 02-11-2011, 07:08 AM

Hi guys - need an opinion. I'm selling a Shuttle and have gotten a PM from a brand new member in Russia. He will Paypal me the money and provide a Fedex customer number (his company's) to cover the shipping. I've read about enough scams involving overpayments/refunds/wire transfers, but this one might be on the up-and-up.

Any opinions?

Bill

crispygoat · #2 02-11-2011, 11:09 AM

Hey Bill,

Personally, I wouldn't ship anything to Europe. I might consider shipping a pedal, but even there, the buyer would need a lot of positive feedback for me to do so.

Selling an amp to a new member in Russia? Absolutely not. There is a Classified section for European members.

I would only consider shipping in the States and Canada. If you are to sell it to a Canadian, I would make sure he has feedback and is aware of the duty taxes. A couple of years ago I bought a German Warwick from someone in the States and had to pay $160 of taxes. Needless to say, I was surprised and probably wouldn't have gotten the Warwick had I known. I could have declined and the bass would have been sent back, but that wouldn't be quite professional from my part.

On top of that, I assume you are selling a Genz Benz Shuttle which is quite popular on TalkBass. Someone in the States or Canada will surely grab it anytime soon.

My .02 cents!

Good luck!

fenderhutz · #3 02-11-2011, 11:14 AM

No feedback is a no no for international shipping.

Now if he Paypal's you the money and it clears and provides FedEx shipping billing account, it's MUCH harder to fake that because you can see where the paypal money came from.

It's feedback thing for me that is the issue, and yes I have shipped pedals over the waters before. The user had some feedback though.

**baba** · #4 02-11-2011, 12:38 PM

What are you going to do if he disputes the transaction on Paypal and says you either never sent him anything or sent him a few bricks instead? You will have no recourse and lose your money/gear.

High risk transaction on an in demand item. Just say no.

Clark Dark · #5 02-11-2011, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

What are you going to do if he disputes the transaction on Paypal and says you either never sent him anything or sent him a few bricks instead? You will have no recourse and lose your money/gear.

High risk transaction on an in demand item. Just say no.

wouldn't he have something from FedEX as proof ?

KsPiNeSh · #6 02-12-2011, 06:12 AM

Tough call for a member with no feedback, but I shipped a bass to a TBer in Russia not too long ago with no issues whatsoever. I haven't found international shipping to be the issue that some make it out to be, but the great thing about TB is that you can somewhat see how involved and invested people are before you do send anything. Nothing personal against this new member, but I might politely pass and encourage them to get involved, up their post count, and develop a bit of a track record here on TB if they plan on purchasing.

squarepeg · #7 02-12-2011, 06:45 AM

I live in Slovenia and get guitars shipped all the time from the U.S. and Canada There are few problems, mainly the high international rates of courier companies. Does the Shuttle have a switching power supply? It would be rather unfortunate if he plugged a 110 volt amplifier into his 220 volt wall socket (been there, done that).

froghat · #8 02-12-2011, 10:33 AM

Thanks all! I really appreciate how the TB community is willing to share advice and opinions.

davidprice · #9 02-13-2011, 11:50 AM

The no feedback thing is a concern regardless of location. I've sent stuff back-and-forth many times as well as had things sent - never had an issue on an international transaction. Maybe I've just been lucky. As crispygoat mentioned, any international buyer needs to be aware that they will likely have duties, brokerage fees, etc tacked on - and this can happen having stuff sent in to the U.S. as well (though less frequently). I don't see it being that different sending something to Europe than to Canada. The only scam I've dealt with was when I was in the U.S. and sold an ebay item to someone else in the U.S. then they tried to pull something after I had left positive feedback. Still, the no feedback thing is a concern.

**baba** · #10 02-13-2011, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clark Dark

wouldn't he have something from FedEX as proof ?

Fedex cannot prove what was inside. He could claim he was Fedex'd a box of bricks, yes?

davidprice · #11 02-13-2011, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baba

Fedex cannot prove what was inside. He could claim he was Fedex'd a box of bricks, yes?

Sure. But couldn't the same happen on a domestic transaction?

AntekStalich · #12 02-13-2011, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squarepeg

I live in Slovenia and get guitars shipped all the time from the U.S. and Canada There are few problems, mainly the high international rates of courier companies. Does the Shuttle have a switching power supply? It would be rather unfortunate if he plugged a 110 volt amplifier into his 220 volt wall socket (been there, done that).

Slovenia is in European Union, while Russia is not. Our company does some business in Russia; there are always problems with customs there.

I could only advice: The given TB'er should get known better to the community.

davidprice · #13 02-13-2011, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AntekStalich

Slovenia is in European Union, while Russia is not. Our company does some business in Russia; there are always problems with customs there.

I could only advice: The given TB'er should get known better to the community.

True on both points - though I'd feel a lot more comfortable using FedEx and could imagine that being part of the reason the - prospective - purchaser wanted to specify using them.

A lot of people won't ship to Italy due to the reputation of problems with the regular mail there and they are in the EU (and I've certainly encountered some that are not comfortable sending to Poland despite it being part of the EU - and I doubt they make much distinction between it and Russia). Doing any of these deals requires a level of trust on both sides (again, one can send a box of bricks within the U.S. to the EU, Russia or wherever) and it is hard to have trust with someone with no feedback on a high cost sale - yes, the TB'er should get better known to the community!

Pozdrawiam!

**baba** · #14 02-14-2011, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidprice

Sure. But couldn't the same happen on a domestic transaction?

Of course. This is why I would never use Paypal with any high dollar sale to anyone, anywhere, that is a new member with no feedback or cred otherwise. I request USPS Money Orders on anything I sell. The bottom line is Paypal offers absolutely no SELLER protection, so never hang your ass out there as a seller.

cybersnyder · #15 02-22-2011, 01:48 PM

Personally, I'd never ship to Russia. I've seen too many hacker attacks coming from Russia and that probably taints my opinion.

AntekStalich · #16 02-22-2011, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidprice

A lot of people won't ship to Italy due to the reputation of problems with the regular mail there and they are in the EU (and I've certainly encountered some that are not comfortable sending to Poland despite it being part of the EU - and I doubt they make much distinction between it and Russia). Doing any of these deals requires a level of trust on both sides (again, one can send a box of bricks within the U.S. to the EU, Russia or wherever) and it is hard to have trust with someone with no feedback on a high cost sale - yes, the TB'er should get better known to the community!
Pozdrawiam!

Sorry for late answering!
Well, David, someone has ordered a mobile phone at Allegro.pl (our local sort of Ebay) and got two potatoes instead

Of course, he could make a valid claim.

But I would say that selling to Poland is relatively easy and pretty safe. Trust my word on that. However, the Polish hate things like import tax and VAT. Just imagine -- you sell a nice bass for $1000 -- and the Polish has to pay more than twice! (I have checked the price of new specific gear in Guitar Center, then I applied duties -- these include the shipment cost! -- and the price is THE SAME as in Thomann in Germany).

So, the Polish do this: They find someone in the United States (perhaps family, a relative, a friend). Such person buys the gear from you -- you trust selling locally. Then we could think of:
1. Normal shipment as a gift and hope that the Customs would believe in the gift story (often they do)
OR
2. Finding someone who'd carry the gear (basically it could only be a bass guitar or a lightweight amp or an effect) and fly it to Poland in checked baggage.

Therefore, this kind of import happens only in the case of very expensive gear or with unique instruments or with real bargain. But this kind of imports is done on very large scale and is the fact.

I have however no slightest idea how it works for Russia and unluckily I am driven by my own prejudices...

davidprice · #17 02-22-2011, 02:34 PM

Cześć Antek,

Yes, all you say is true - I'm familiar with Allegro and the various 'import' strategies (I live in Poland) and have had good luck with the freight forwarders, too - like polamer (I actually had my upright shipped with them - cheap but high risk in terms of damage as there was essentially no insurance but it made it fine and with no customs/VAT).

And I have encountered some that ebay sellers, etc that won't ship to Poland and I think in their mental image it is not all that different than Russia (despite objective reality) -- I remember Amazon would not ship to Poland despite it being in the EU - though that may have changed (I hope).

Don't get me wrong, Russia IS dicey but I have sent stuff before using FedEx and I think they do a pretty good job of making sure their stuff is 'protected'. (And I remember hearing horror stories of stuff being stolen from containers entering Poland before but I don't know how much was real vs. rumor -- things seem to work pretty well here IME.)

Yes, being in Europe and having to pay the additional 35% (22%? VAT + other duties it I remember it being 35% total -- the VAT rate varying slightly from country to country in the EU) is unpleasant...

BTW enjoy the MB Fusion! And hope to see you around Poland sometime.

AntekStalich · #18 02-22-2011, 04:00 PM

Witaj David,

First, it's good to know we live in the same country

Where do you live? (You could pm me).

I must agree to most of your points, I'm only unsure about the import tax figure. I could check my calculation again but it is not that important or interesting to other TB'ers.

I think everybody agrees -- it's risky to sell to Mr X. (The rule of "Magazyn Gitarzysta" was letting a user post a classified only after he/she wrote certain number of meaningful posts).

davidprice · #19 02-22-2011, 04:55 PM

Witaj Antek,

I pm'd you. I'm in Dolnasląsk.

I'm not 100% sure on the taxes but it's in that ballpark. I remember the 35% total figure from when I moved here (I'm American - I didn't have to pay as I was relocating but I would have had to pay the full amount if I sold anything within the first year - and they did send an inspector near the end of that first year...). I think VAT alone is 22 or 23%. To be fair, the VAT/customs is true throughout the EU and it's not just the Poles that want to avoid it if they can

And it was similar when I lived in Berlin.

I agree about lack of history/feedback being a concern - same as on ebay. My point was that risks are not geographically limited - like the potatoes, I know of a store in California where there was graft going on in that they showed a certain number of amps in inventory but it turned out one person involved with the store had been selling them and resealing the boxes with cinder blocks inside. Scams can happen anywhere....

Pozdrawiam!

AntekStalich · #20 02-22-2011, 05:35 PM

David,

I've checked out my calculation that I had once made here (Polish):
http://forum.magazyngitarzysta.pl/vi...hp?f=32&t=8347

This is the update:
Price in Poland =(item value $ + shipment cost $) * current exchange rate (3.00) *1,26 + 269 PLN (customs agency fee).
1.26 is 23% VAT plus approximately 3% import tax.
My calculation was to prove that only expensive or rare items were worth importing.

Your calculation is more or less right, I was wrong before.
---------------
In all other matters I can only agree with you.