Suspected ripping off by a Alembic seller. What's next?

[b-for-beatles]

Originally Posted by seang15

Moral of the story? Next time, buy a Fodera, guys!

Yes sir. I honestly think in the future I shall buy from store who ship things regularly overseas. As many of us we are all non professional (I mean this is not our paid job) and sometimes things happen. And yes, but the way, I bought fodera and more are coming.

[curbowkid]

I'm anticipating John turner will drop the hammer soon.

[WilsonMusic]

I honestly think this is getting dragged out longer than it ever had to....not to mention ever needing to be brought up at all.

[WilsonMusic]

I just emailed with Nick, and honestly guys....I give up. Period. The mods seemed to have taken sides and refuse to make contact with me. I have lost faith here. As I said in the email, I will do so here.....I'm sorry Nick. I'm sorry it took 3 weeks to get the bass out to you and I'm sorry I led you to think that I was ripping you off. Either way, the bass has been in transit for over 48hrs and the tracking number shows it. Fin

[b-for-beatles]

Originally Posted by WilsonMusic

I just emailed with Nick, and honestly guys....I give up. Period. The mods seemed to have taken sides and refuse to make contact with me. I have lost faith here. As I said in the email, I will do so here.....I'm sorry Nick. I'm sorry it took 3 weeks to get the bass out to you and I'm sorry I led you to think that I was ripping you off. Either way, the bass has been in transit for over 48hrs and the tracking number shows it. Fin

Lets stop here. Be cool. It's a bass after all.

[b-for-beatles]

Originally Posted by b-for-beatles

Lets stop here. Be cool. It's a bass after all.

And I replied ur email. Please check

[Evil Undead]

I understand that the seller had health issues and was in hospital etc, but with all due respect, how was the buyer to know that he wasn't being misled or lied to? He's on the other side of the world and had sent what I imagine was a very large sum of money by bank transfer, with little to no protection (like PayPal would offer etc). I think in that situation I'd really be panicking as well. I'm sure WilsonMusic is a stand up guy but I think I'd probably react in the same way as Nick if this happened to me. And I consider myself to be a decent, patient and reasonable person.

I have bought and sold abroad a lot and haven't had a problem but of course it happens. But problems also happen with domestic shipping!

[purfektstranger]

Shipping internationally has nothing to do with the buyer seller experiences here. Had the buyer lived 400 miles away the bass still would have been shipped late...end of story. Is the buyer over anxious? I think so but then again I would've been freaking out too if I had bought a bass and kept getting the shipping date put off. Now is the time for him to calm down, stop the threats and try to see things as they are. He shouldn't discount the seller's claim that he was hospitalised. Noone normally makes **** like that up nor wants to be there. Regarding the hospital stay, others shouldn't assume that the shipper has someone else to do his tasks for him while he is laid up. Shipping an expensive bass involves more than dropping off a letter or paying a bill. The buyer is suggesting that he will now receive the bass may not not like it? Grow up because that come across as very childish to me. . There are three sides to every story and we have two of them. Here's hoping buyer gets his bass and loves it and seller gets his health back.

[tradernick]

There's basically no excuse for failing to ship an item this valuable within 48 hours. Even if I was in the hospital, I would get someone to take care of it. As a buyer in Canada. I find it odd that guys here would say 'that's it, only lower 48 for me' when it seems like this was basically the seller's fault. If I were hearing things like 'my _________ is in hospital' and 'the dog ate my homework', I'd be worried too. If I heard 'I didn't ship because I'm depressed', as this buyer did, I'd be more than worried.

Frankly, the buyer could have and probably should have bailed on this deal when the seller said 'send the money to someone other than me'.

[AnchorHoy]

disclaimer:

1 - I've never done business with either of these guys
2 - I have done a fair amount of International shipping on eBay sales - which tended to be far more problematic than anything I've ever encountered on this Board

Now that we've got that out of the way....

I can see the buyer's concern here. High Dollar item, paid for with what is essentially a non-reversible method (unless the Seller initiates a completely new bank transaction), plus a significant shipping delay

OTOH as a personal opinion, what I've read so far from both sides leads me to believe that this Seller did the best he could under extremely trying circumstances that were not under his control, including detailed status reports that were sent as quickly as possible. After plenty of communication back-and-forth an agreement was eventually reached as to a deadline for the delayed shipping date and the Seller met that deadline, including a tracking #. End. Of.

Buyer obviously doesn't believe what the Seller is telling him, and that is his perogative. For my 2¢ worth, a major part of that is a cultural issue - something that personal experience has soured me forever on dealing with wealthy residents of Hong Kong (and I'll leave it at that....). He also seems to have very little experience with low-cost International shipping methods, which are inherently slow and do not provide detailed and timely tracking at all points of the journey. A large part of what this Buyer wants as far as tracking the shipment (and easy transit thru Customs at both ends) is readily available from UPS, FedEx, or DHL - at a cost which would've easily added hundreds of dollars to the total bill. Buyer didn't want to pay the extra shipping cost for a fast and trouble-free method *shrug*

All of the above can sometimes be part of the deal when conducting an International sale. Not always, and IME not even the majority of the time, but definitely a possibility to be considered (and planned for) by both parties well in advance of any funds changing hands

That said, posting a strong accusation of criminal behavior that can be (and has been) thoroughly refuted by easily verifiable facts is not a good way to conduct business. Neither is making empty threats. I don't care who this Buyer is, he doesn't have that kind of guanxi in the United States and attempts to push further in that direction will make the situation far worse for the Buyer than it already is

The bass in now verifiably in transit. Nothing left for the Buyer to do but wait the period of time that he paid for and accept it when it is finally released by HK Customs. Refusing the parcel would be a clear sign - to me, at least - that this is a Buyer not worth doing business with at any price

[b-for-beatles]

Originally Posted by AnchorHoy

disclaimer:

1 - I've never done business with either of these guys
2 - I have done a fair amount of International shipping on eBay sales - which tended to be far more problematic than anything I've ever encountered on this Board

Now that we've got that out of the way....

Thanks for the comments sir. I really hope I can show everyone the whole mails communication between us in every single words and help you all understand my concern. As seller declined this idea I have to respect his will. Anyway I hope we all can end here. I will wait for the bass patiently. Btw, I am not wealthy Hong Kong resident. Just have some hard earned spare money for my GAS bass.

[Poopoutyouridea]

Originally Posted by b-for-beatles

Thanks for the comments sir. I really hope I can show everyone the whole mails communication between us in every single words and help you all understand my concern. As seller declined this idea I have to respect his will. Anyway I hope we all can end here. I will wait for the bass patiently. Btw, I am not wealthy Hong Kong resident. Just have some hard earned spare money for my GAS bass.

Wow. You sure have expensive GAS.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by b-for-beatles

Sir,
The agreed date for shipping is on 10/10 then 14/10 then 19/10 then 28/10 and finally 31/10. And you mentioned hospital Issue on 27/10 NOT in any emails before this day.

And this is the important point.
I would also be upset if I spent so much money and then I keep being put off.
Seller could have got someone else to post it for him. Or offer to refund until ready to post.
Unfortunate circumstances and previous good feedback mean nothing: in this case, the seller did not/could not act according to his usual good standards, so it's normal the buyer is upset.

The seller's very defensive attitude doesn't earn him many points either.

At the same time, buyer freaked out a bit, as he posted this after the bass was already posted. The reason he did so was he did not really understand the info from the tracking service... and he was already worried expecting the worse. Can you really blame him, after been put off again and again?
Seller could be a great guy... but buyer only has this experience to judge him from.

Seller refuses to accept his actions led to the buyer being worried, and I agree with the poster who said that some sweet words could have stopped this thread in its tracks. Instead he is too selfcentered on his being upset.
Come on.
You may be a stand up guy. But even a stand up guy sometimes makes mistakes. I think it's time to admit it, apologise, and stop adding wood to the fire... and hope the parcel arrives soon and safely.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by lethargytartare

Whole lotta unjustified dog-piling on the buyer here. Seriously -- the buyer has every right to be outraged and nervous until that instrument is in his hands and is 100% as described.

I have no problem with WM, don't know either guy, have no bones to pick. I've been on both sides of international transactions.

Lots of TBers seemed happy to defame the buyer here despite his being in the right, so I want to make sure people remember that the buyer played straight here and has every right to be nervous until that bass arrives. No amount of "so and so is a stand up guy" can help now, after all the things that have happened.

Buyer paid on Oct 5, Hurricane Sandy didn't make landfall until Oct 29, so that's a non-issue (well, it's probably an issue NOW -- but it can't be blamed for the late shipping date). If a seller asks -- and gets -- wired instant payment, he should have that item in the hands of the post office the next day (if not THAT day). Seriously guys, there's no excuse for anything less, and I'm stunned that anyone would jump on the buyer for being upset about that aspect. Everything else is secondary -- this is an easy case where seller could have just accepted responsibility for the transaction being in a bit of a messy state, and just put more effort into keeping the lines of communication open. Refusing to talk any more? Not valid until that bass has arrived (unless it got really abusive, obviously). And if a seller told me he wasn't going to talk to me any more because I was being rude, I WOULD start bringing authorities into the matter (although I know how futile that actually can be).

Since the bass has shipped, and seller has had the full payment all along, everyone here should be pushing seller to humbly accept responsibility for the mess, and encourage him to keep in constant contact with buyer until that bass arrives. Badmouthing the buyer, or egging seller on in feeling indignant is wrong and bad for everyone. But showing buyer support AND emphasizing seller's rep would give buyer a lot of peace of mind and could smooth this whole mess out.

ltt

Voice of reason here!

[NickCressotti]

The seller apologized and the buyer accepted it. Let's move on.

[LowBSix]

About a year ago, I sold an LEJ5 that went to France. I came down with the worst flu of my life and spent December and January in bed.

I informed the buyer right away. He responded kindly and suggested I rest and get well; he was not in a rush. I did not ship for about two weeks, but communicated with the buyer regularly via email on an iPhone. I stayed in bed except to drop at FedEx.

I've shipped to Israel and France using FedEx each time. The difference in price is a benefit to both buyer and seller.

I'll ship internationally unless the buyer is not willing to pay for the increase in fees.

One more thing... A good friend is an FBI agent. The FBI won't look at a case with a value under $1,000,000.

Conclusion:
1. Communicate
2. Always ship with detailed tracking
3. Be excellent to each other

[Gabriel51]

The moderators don't get involved because it would be a form of censorship and my hats of to them for that plus the thread has been civil. (I'm impressed)
If the buyer is convinced the bass is on the way he can delete this thread and I hope he does for everyone's sake.
The buyers responsibility virtually ends with the payment and the seller should always meet agreed terms.
Unfortunately life got in the way and prevented the seller from meeting his obligation, these two will have to decide the correct coarse of action and I hope things end amicably.

[b-for-beatles]

I don't mind deleting it'but I don't know how. Can anyone help please?

[Gabriel51]

Originally Posted by b-for-beatles

I don't mind deleting it'but I don't know how. Can anyone help please?

In your first post, look at the upper right for thread tools.
If it is like the classifieds there should be a delete feature there, hopefully it is the same?

[b-for-beatles]

tried but couldn't.