Thoughts on an TB classifieds "etiquette" sticky?

[rogerbmiller]

Hi folks. Curious to get some opinions about a thought I had.

To start, I have a serious GAS problem to I buy a lot of basses. Because of natural space constraints this means I also sell a lot of basses. I used to use ebay but about 3 years ago I switched to the TB classifieds for most of my trading. I deeply appreciate that we have the use of the classifieds free of charge to buy, sell and trade gear. It's a great feature of TB.

However over the past year or so, I have had some bad experiences, way more than usual. These have made me think that a sticky about "Buying and Selling" etiquette would benefit everyone who uses the classifieds forum.

Two of the most irksome examples that seem to be recurring in my world, and I have heard others complain about:

-Folks PMing expressing "serious interest" asking for a bunch of detailed pictures and specs, and then never a returned PM once they are provided.

-Folks offering lowball offers, or grinding you down on price and then either saying "nah" or disappearing never to return the PM accepting their offers.

I recently even had a guy grind me on price on a bass, and then he returned claiming it had a bad preamp. Being the nice guy I am I took it back, ate the shipping and the preamp was fine.

Now I have nothing against someone trying to get a good deal, but don't agree to a rock bottom price and then walk away. That is just not considerate if someone is spending their time to accommodate you.

I am not sure if all this is because of more traffic, different user base, or what. But like I said, I have noticed it recently and I have heard one or two others making the same gripes.

So I am wondering if anyone else has been having these types of experiences on the classifieds, and whether anyone else thinks we may all benefit from an etiquette sticky to establish come rules or guidelines not unlike what they have on ebay. Again, it would apply to selling and buying guidelines. You know just a friendly note to suggest that you should only contact other TBers if you have intentions to buy, no spec hounding for the sake of, etc.

Would love to know everyone's thoughts.

Thanks.

[ErikW]

How would one even know they have a potential "spec hound" questioning their merchandise. People are not going to change because of a sticky. And yes, I have had problems with potential buyers also. I even had a deal closed, sent my info to the buyer, he said pack it up well, money is on the way. Guy was never heard from again. Disappeared off of TB completely. Several months later had the nerve to pm me and ask if I still had it. Some people are just f*#@ed up and that's life. No sticky will change that. Sorry for the rant. Hit a hot button with me.

[rogerbmiller]

Originally Posted by ErikW

How would one even know they have a potential "spec hound" questioning their merchandise. People are not going to change because of a sticky. And yes, I have had problems with potential buyers also. I even had a deal closed, sent my info to the buyer, he said pack it up well, money is on the way. Guy was never heard from again. Disappeared off of TB completely. Several months later had the nerve to pm me and ask if I still had it. Some people are just f*#@ed up and that's life. No sticky will change that. Sorry for the rant. Hit a hot button with me.

No rant at all thanks for the feedback

Sorry to hear that happened to you. I feel your pain.

Agreed a sticky won't change people per se but it would certainly make clear that there are certain expectations and standards of use. Sme people will certainly violate these standards but if they are not made explicit then those who just don't know better won't know they are in violation. I would like to think that there are many tb ers that do want to comply with the rules and a sticky may be enlightening for them.

Then again i am an optimist...

[handofseven]

I like the idea.

It would be interesting to hear thoughts on the difference between good and bad etiquette, as it pertains to things like "making an offer"... Personally, I think it's rude to offer less than 85% of asking price. If you don't want to pay at least 85%, you should just move on, or at least wait until the seller decides to drop the price...

[hdracer]

Sounds great on paper.
The problem is, the headache people would never read the stickie and if they did they would not follow it.

[rogerbmiller]

Originally Posted by handofseven

I like the idea.

It would be interesting to hear thoughts on the difference between good and bad etiquette, as it pertains to things like "making an offer"... Personally, I think it's rude to offer less than 85% of asking price. If you don't want to pay at least 85%, you should just move on, or at least wait until the seller decides to drop the price...

Yeah we could definitely come up with a list. Some things are already on the existing sticky like " don't dispute a sellers ask price publicly, pm them" but there are a bunch of specifics that could be listed.

I personally wouldnt put limits on counters because some people do ask way too high. What I would rather see is language that says:

-when you make a written offer, and it is accepted, that constitutes an agreement

-don't negotiate on price, request detailed measurements,photos, etc unless you have full intention of purchasing

-if you request the seller hold the item for you, you should offer a deposit.

- If you engage the seller in any discussion via pm about a transaction, upon receiving any requested information, etc., you are expected to let the seller know if you intend to proceed with the purchase or not


There is probably more but that is the kind of stuff I am thinking.

Ultimately it's just to let people know that basic courtesy is expected.

[B-string]

I personally feel this is warranted. Any violation of these guide lines carry the same penalty as conduct violations on any board. I don't contact if I don't intend to buy, if an agreement can't be made then I will thank the seller for their time. It is not much to ask.

[Staccato]

SELLERS - For a high priced bass...

1. List the weight for a bass priced at/over $1,000 dollars. (Buyers deserve that detail in this price range).

If a buyer is spending that much on an instrument, it's not a stretch to ask the seller to get off the couch, and go get an accurate weight before listing the ad, and some detailed manufacturer's specifications would be helpful, too. Sellers, instead of making the buyer find the specifications, how about you finding/listed them.

[Unrepresented]

Originally Posted by rogerbmiller

Yeah we could definitely come up with a list. Some things are already on the existing sticky like " don't dispute a sellers ask price publicly, pm them" but there are a bunch of specifics that could be listed.

I personally wouldnt put limits on counters because some people do ask way too high. What I would rather see is language that says:

-when you make a written offer, and it is accepted, that constitutes an agreement

-don't negotiate on price, request detailed measurements,photos, etc unless you have full intention of purchasing

-if you request the seller hold the item for you, you should offer a deposit.

- If you engage the seller in any discussion via pm about a transaction, upon receiving any requested information, etc., you are expected to let the seller know if you intend to proceed with the purchase or not

There is probably more but that is the kind of stuff I am thinking.

Ultimately it's just to let people know that basic courtesy is expected.

These all sound fairly reasonable. Enforcing them seems like it'd be the issue.

[rogerbmiller]

Agreed here is not much you can do about enforcement. The idea thoughts to make people think twice. Surely there will also be some solid tb citizens who do comply.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Staccato

SELLERS - For a high priced bass...

1. List the weight for a bass priced at/over $1,000 dollars. (Buyers deserve that detail in this price range).

If a buyer is spending that much on an instrument, it's not a stretch to ask the seller to get off the couch, and go get an accurate weight before listing the ad, and some detailed manufacturer's specifications would be helpful, too. Sellers, instead of making the buyer find the specifications, how about you finding/listed them.

I've sold dozens of basses on this forum, and I've learned one thing in my experience: people who ask about weight are rarely serious buyers. I'm guessing most of them are looking for some holy-grail, 7 lb 5 string. Honestly, I've rarely had someone ask about weight and then buy the bass. Probably twice.....max.....and both of those turned out to be issues when their scales showed the bass to be a few oz more than mine.

[Joe Nerve]

Only guideline id like to see is that price needs to be either listen in the title, or as the first thing in the post. My biggest peave is having to scroll through 1000 words trying to find a price.

[fourstringdrums]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I've sold dozens of basses on this forum, and I've learned one thing in my experience: people who ask about weight are rarely serious buyers. I'm guessing most of them are looking for some holy-grail, 7 lb 5 string. Honestly, I've rarely had someone ask about weight and then buy the bass. Probably twice.....max.....and both of those turned out to be issues when their scales showed the bass to be a few oz more than mine.

That's been my experience. In a recent case I had a buyer ask about the weight, low-ball the price, and when I went back, the majority of their posts were all classified related "Is this still available?" "PM sent" etc.. and I highly doubt they ever bought anything.

[jnewmark]

" If you engage the seller in any discussion via pm about a transaction, upon receiving any requested information, etc., you are expected to let the seller know if you intend to proceed with the purchase or not "

Had this happen to me recently. PM'd about my bass for sale , asked specific questions, and wanted a reply " ASAP " as he was deciding on my bass and another one. I replied promptly, and have'nt heard back since. This has happened more than once, and I feel is a reportable offense.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

" If you engage the seller in any discussion via pm about a transaction, upon receiving any requested information, etc., you are expected to let the seller know if you intend to proceed with the purchase or not "

Had this happen to me recently. PM'd about my bass for sale , asked specific questions, and wanted a reply " ASAP " as he was deciding on my bass and another one. I replied promptly, and have'nt heard back since. This has happened more than once, and I feel is a reportable offense.

This happens all the time and, IMHO, falls in the "life's too short" category.

[jnewmark]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

This happens all the time and, IMHO, falls in the "life's too short" category.

You are right: Life is too short, period. But it could be alot less aggravating if people would just use a little respect and common etiquitte once in awhile.

[rogerbmiller]

Originally Posted by jnewmark

You are right: Life is too short, period. But it could be alot less aggravating if people would just use a little respect and common etiquitte once in awhile.

Ditto that. My purpose in posting this was that maybe we can have a sticky to remind those using the classifieds of the type of decorum expected of them.

[DWBass]

Hasn't happened to me much but once I bought a bass from a TB member and the guy charged me $20 for packing materials. I receive the bass in a old bare bones guitar box he probably already had or grabbed from a store, with 2 or 3 random pieces of styrofoam. No neck or body protection at all so the bass was 'floating' around the box during shipping. Preamp knobs were bent and a straplock was banged and was loosefitting! I was pissed! And this is from a guy who owns several high end basses (this bass was a FrankenFender)! I seriously doubt he would have packed any one of his high end basses like that! Besides ettiquette, I think a sticky should be put up with instructions on how to ship basses and amps and if not followed, maybe give demerits or temporary bannings!

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve

Only guideline id like to see is that price needs to be either listen in the title, or as the first thing in the post. My biggest peave is having to scroll through 1000 words trying to find a price.

Or at least put it in BOLD!

[rogerbmiller]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Hasn't happened to me much but once I bought a bass from a TB member and the guy charged me $20 for packing materials. I receive the bass in a old bare bones guitar box he probably already had or grabbed from a store, with 2 or 3 random pieces of styrofoam. No neck or body protection at all so the bass was 'floating' around the box during shipping. Preamp knobs were bent and a straplock was banged and was loosefitting! I was pissed! And this is from a guy who owns several high end basses (this bass was a FrankenFender)! I seriously doubt he would have packed any one of his high end basses like that! Besides ettiquette, I think a sticky should be put up with instructions on how to ship basses and amps and if not followed, maybe give demerits or temporary bannings!

Yes! Shipping ettiquite!