4-Finger, 3-Finger, 2-Finger systems?

Blazemourne · #1 08-25-2006, 02:40 PM

Would someone give me a thorough explanation for each system? And which of these is the most popular? Also is the system that I use a 4 finger (Index finger, middle finger, and pinky,1-2-4)?

dukerutledge · #2 08-25-2006, 02:45 PM

I'm unsure of what you are looking for, but the general Idea is to alternate fingers in a steady consistant manner. 2-finger (index, middle, index, middle) 3-finger (index, middle, ring or ring, middle, index) and 4-follows. What you are doing would be 3 finger, just nothing I've heard anyone do. If you are wondering about any deffinate "systems" look up gary willis' 3-finger technique.

TomGale · #3 08-25-2006, 04:08 PM

The 1,2,4 - covering 1 full step - is commonly refered to as the "Simandl" technique or the 'closed hand' technique - even though many others have written in this manner.
1,2,3,4 - covering a minor third - is called the 'open hand tech', or the 4 finger technique or the Karr technique.
1,2,1,2, is just a more melodic approach to either of the above.
When you have a good command of the above three and the use of the thumb above and below the octave, you are on your way to meeting all musical challenges!
Tom Gale
ASODB.com

WillBuckingham · #4 08-25-2006, 08:21 PM

Blazemourne, you're talking about left-hand technique for double bass, right? It would help if you were a little more clear in your post and filled out your profile.

dukerutledge, I'm pretty sure you're talking about right-hand technique for electric bass. This is the double bass forum.

Blazemourne · #5 08-25-2006, 09:56 PM

Yeah left-hand technique for double bass.

lfh · #6 08-26-2006, 12:30 PM

Another 3-finger system is the Italian one: 1,3,4

Simandl (1,2,4) is likely the most common system, but nowadays many players switch to the 4-finger system in higher positions when playing fast passages. (Note that, as opposed to on the electric, a pivoting or rolling movement is often necessary in the 4-finger case since statically maintaining such a wide stretch may overstress the hand.)

TomGale · #7 08-26-2006, 01:46 PM

(Note that, as opposed to on the electric, a pivoting or rolling movement is often necessary in the 4-finger case since statically maintaining such a wide stretch may overstress the hand.)[/quote]

Excellent! Or as I say,
"Don't Block and Lock ...
Just Rock and Roll!"

Tom Gale
ASODB.com

ehque · #8 09-14-2006, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dukerutledge

I'm unsure of what you are looking for, but the general Idea is to alternate fingers in a steady consistant manner. 2-finger (index, middle, index, middle) 3-finger (index, middle, ring or ring, middle, index) and 4-follows. What you are doing would be 3 finger, just nothing I've heard anyone do. If you are wondering about any deffinate "systems" look up gary willis' 3-finger technique.

someone wandered in from the BG forums again. he's talking about BG right hand fingerstyle technique, i believe?

robobass · #9 09-19-2006, 05:42 PM

1,2; 1,2,4; 1,3,4; etc. What about just 1? or just 4? There's a lot of music out ther theat doesn't require the modern refinements of Bille or Simandl or Rabbath. I suddenly feel like a snob using all my fingers, and my thumb to boot!
Robobass

neilG · #10 09-20-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TomGale

1,2,1,2, is just a more melodic approach to either of the above.

Tom,
I've seen you say this on more than one occasion. Why would only using two fingers be more melodic than anything else? With all the distance we need to cover, it seems extremely limiting. What is the logic behind it?
Neil

Justin K-ski · #11 09-29-2006, 02:40 PM

I'd be curious to know as well...

JoeyNaeger · #12 09-29-2006, 03:04 PM

1 and 2 are your strongest fingers and and yield the best vibrato. Also, using only two fingers allows your hand to be situated in the strongest and most balanced position for good vibrato. One thing about the rabbath system that I really don't like is that thumb position is taught to only be played with your hand covering either a perfect fourth or a major third. For quick playing this is great, but try doing doing vibrato on a C while your thumb is still planted on the harmonic G. The shape of your hand makes it very difficult. Playing with 1 and 2 or 1 and 4(3) requires more shifting, but I've found I'm more comfortable shifting then stretching my hand when I can get away with it.

TomGale · #13 09-29-2006, 04:56 PM

[quote=JoeyNaeger]1 and 2 are your strongest fingers and and yield the best vibrato. Also, using only two fingers allows your hand to be situated in the strongest and most balanced position for good vibrato.

Excellent!! When I threw in "Aura Lee" in the middle of an etude with directions to use only the 1st and 2nd fingers, I was questioned by the reviewer - why? I answered that the 2nd finger was for "money notes" and the 1st finger being the next best. It works!.
Tom Gale

neilG · #14 10-02-2006, 01:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeyNaeger

1 and 2 are your strongest fingers and and yield the best vibrato. Also, using only two fingers allows your hand to be situated in the strongest and most balanced position for good vibrato. One thing about the rabbath system that I really don't like is that thumb position is taught to only be played with your hand covering either a perfect fourth or a major third. For quick playing this is great, but try doing doing vibrato on a C while your thumb is still planted on the harmonic G. The shape of your hand makes it very difficult. Playing with 1 and 2 or 1 and 4(3) requires more shifting, but I've found I'm more comfortable shifting then stretching my hand when I can get away with it.

I can vibrate equally well with any finger except the thumb, so I don't agree with that reasoning, but I DO agree that making the thumb position only a fourth or major third is limiting. And only being able to locate notes by referencing harmonics is such a bad crutch, IMO.

We should find a way to post different fingering ideas for pieces here on the board. Has that been done before?

Blazemourne · #15 10-02-2006, 07:32 PM

I have another question about the 4 finger system. Lets say on the D string I play E with my index finger, F with my middle finger, F# with my ring finger, and pivot to G with my pinky, to play G# do I shift or do I pivot even more? (I play my bass in 5ths so I have an A string after D instead of G)

Johnny L · #16 10-02-2006, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blazemourne

I have another question about the 4 finger system. Lets say on the D string I play E with my index finger, F with my middle finger, F# with my ring finger, and pivot to G with my pinky, to play G# do I shift or do I pivot even more? (I play my bass in 5ths so I have an A string after D instead of G)

I think there's some old-time British bassist who used 4 fingers all over the bass (but he tuned in 4ths I think)...had his nut moved down the fingerboard to get a shorter string stop too.

Anyway, whatever's most comfortable for you. Pivoting is useful as an intonation aid to some degree, but ultimately it's the finger stopping the string to get the note you want that's important. If it's more comfortable for you to shift to the G# than pivot, as long as you're still playing G# then it's all good IMO.

I tried the 4 finger thing a little but I haven't found enough value in it to convert yet, even for 5ths tuning. My own needs still get met with 3 fingers and thumb position.

TomGale · #17 10-03-2006, 07:20 AM

Using the 4 finger technique that far down can be difficult. I would think the quickest fingering would be closed hand 1,2, (shift), 1,2,4. If you want to end the figure on a "money finger" but with a slightly longer shift, I like 1.2.4 (shift), 1,2.
Tom Gale
ASODB.com

Johnny L · #18 11-06-2006, 03:33 PM

I've just been turned me onto Silvio Dalla Torre's philosophy on fingerings (who BTW seems to also endorse Tom Gale's own philosophy).

I got to see him perform about 4 months ago and he was great...but he was performing with the bassetto then and I was at first skeptical of 4 finger technique for bass.

Now I'm hooked. Plus, it's kinda cool too how some of his recommended fingerings came to me intuitively through my own experiments using 5ths tuning on the lower strings. I like it.