Anyone Have This Real Book DVD?

jgbass · #1 04-19-2008, 10:43 AM

http://www.realbooksoftware.com

My first impulse is to buy it, my second impulse is to wonder what are the legalities of this thing, not only for the Real Book but also for the recordings.

Also, its the 5th edition, I have plenty of recordings, and recordings are easy to download.

Mark Perna · #2 04-19-2008, 02:52 PM

I scanned the list of tunes and it is not the legal version of the Real Book so the legalities are pretty much clear. It's not.

mark

jgbass · #3 04-19-2008, 04:40 PM

Yes, and the more I give thought to this, I cannot imagine this guy got rights to place all the recorded tunes on his DVD. He says this is "for educational purposes" so you do not have to buy all these CDs. That's not right. Sounds like a bunch of BS. Sorry I even opened this thread and gave something like this any attention. If I am right about this, then it does not deserve anybody's attention.

Right now, the 6th Edition is what I am referring to, and I am encouraging others to use this one.

**Jeremy Allen** · #4 04-19-2008, 06:25 PM

This is absolutely not legal. There is a "fair use" convention in US legal practice that allows educators to share materials with students, but even in that case it's not "actually" legal to do so. Taking money for something you don't own and have stolen, in any case, is illegal.

boylebass · #5 04-20-2008, 11:59 AM

But it "will make me a better musician, almost overnight"! For only $65!!!

This won't last long. Hal Leonard will have it taken down, just like Fender takes down any website that offers illegal headstock decals.

kevinmoore73 · #6 04-20-2008, 12:06 PM

I posted here about this "product" of his about a year ago. The seller quickly created an account to give some of his sales pitch here. After people starting asking the hard questions, (legality of music, software licensing restrictions, etc.) he disappeared.

If Hal Leonard is going to take him down, they sure are taking their sweet time with it.

jgbass · #7 04-20-2008, 12:14 PM

Kevin,

I think it would be difficult to take him down as the basis of his product (5th Edition) is an illegal entity anyway. And, as far as all the "educational purpose" recordings, that would involve the efforts of multiple companies to go after him.

Sorry I did not do my research. I thought this was a newer product, saw it on an advertisement on amazon.com, but now I will research this.

Mr.Phil · #8 04-20-2008, 12:19 PM

I didn't see a contact anywhere on the website and if you click support it mentions something about registration only lasting 15 days. I'd pass.

LowEndjazz · #9 04-20-2008, 12:56 PM

I own the program. There has been plenty of support and contact offered, and usually very quickly, so I see nothing dodgy there.
I myself think it is an amazing product. It delivers everything it says and more. I wish something like this existed years ago when I first got into the Real book.

Phil mentions a 15 day registration. It is nothing really, you send in a registration number that shows up after you installed the software and you receive a key. You are good for the rest of all time.

These other issues being discussed here may or may not have any real bearing since the Real Book has been around for 35+ years and if it were truly an evil thing would have been gone long ago. Besides who here didn't own the paper RealBook? You can't take the moral high ground and own a copy at the same time. Maybe an old fashioned book burning is in order. (that's a joke..)

I think that those people who get overly involved in these 'legality' discussions have the right to their opinions, but that is really all it is - an opinion. My advice - if this product looks to have value to you then get it - if it causes you concern, then don't, but talking about it like this seems a bit silly.

kevinmoore73 · #10 04-20-2008, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEndjazz

It is nothing really, you send in a registration number that shows up after you installed the software and you receive a key. You are good for the rest of all time.

Well, until you reinstall your OS or you get a new computer. If you do that, you'll need another key.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowEndjazz

My advice - if this product looks to have value to you then get it - if it causes you concern, then don't, but talking about it like this seems a bit silly.

If your morals allow you to pay someone for thousands of songs they're selling illegally, so be it. Some people have no problem buying stolen goods. Besides, if "talking about it like this seems silly" then why are you posting in the first place?

Eric Hochberg · #11 04-20-2008, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kevinmoore73

If your morals allow you to pay someone for thousands of songs they're selling illegally, so be it. Some people have no problem buying stolen goods.

The seller claims to have licenses for all the recordings in the ad copy. If anything about this is illegal, it would seem to me that the copyright holders/publishers and owners of the recordings would go after him. Maybe their purposes in this shouldn't be second guessed.

If anyone wants to play policeman, they can forward the website info to the artists, publishers and record companies (well known for their high moral values...).

Dave Speranza · #12 04-20-2008, 02:45 PM

Hopefully he's modified the original recordings to contain the same mistakes as the real book!

Oh wait, nevermind, just watched the video...Apparently trane must not have had the software, he played the melody on bessie's blues wrong!

kevinmoore73 · #13 04-20-2008, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ehochberg

The seller claims to have licenses for all the recordings in the ad copy.

Yeah, because the license to redistribute thousands of songs is so inexpensive it allows one to sell them all for only $65.

jgbass · #14 04-20-2008, 06:16 PM

Hey Guys,

Since I started this thread, I thought I would contact Hal Leonard and again let them know about this website and its problems. Maybe I will get a response from them.

Hawaii Islander · #15 04-20-2008, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeremy Allen

This is absolutely not legal. There is a "fair use" convention in US legal practice that allows educators to share materials with students, but even in that case it's not "actually" legal to do so. Taking money for something you don't own and have stolen, in any case, is illegal.

Fair use applies to software or other works (written or audio) that has been made available by the author(s) at no charge for home or educational use and IS legal. Software examples are GIMP and KompoZer. They are also known as "Open Source" materials. The DVD listed by the OP in NOT "Open Source" and is not an example of "Fair Use".

As far as I know, it is permissible for teachers and/or professors to write out parts of songs on the black board for class discussion, even though students paid to be in the course. This is standard practice at every college and/or university I have been to or attended.

kevinmoore73 · #16 04-20-2008, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawaii Islander

Fair use applies to software or other works (written or audio) that has been made available by the author(s) at no charge for home or educational use and IS legal. Software examples are GIMP and KompoZer. They are also known as "Open Source" materials. The DVD listed by the OP in NOT "Open Source" and is not an example of "Fair Use".

Just to be clear, Fair Use and Open Source have *nothing to do with one another*. Fair Use allows for the limited use of copyrighted material without permission in certain circumstances.

Open Source is a software principal that provides the complete source code of programs and allows for anyone to make any modifications to said code or to sell or otherwise redistribute said code as long as the modified or sold code carries the same license. Want more information? Visit http://www.opensource.org/

Mark Perna · #17 04-20-2008, 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgbass

Hey Guys,

Since I started this thread, I thought I would contact Hal Leonard and again let them know about this website and its problems. Maybe I will get a response from them.

Why contact Hal Leonard? They don't have anything to do with this. If you want to get a response, contact the FBI. If this Real Book Software site is in the US, they have legal jurisdiction. I don't know if they'll actually do anything, though. Outside of a few minor busts, they never did anything about the original paper version of the Real Book.

I have a problem with this software version of the Book that I don't have with the original paper version. The original Book, while illegal, probably caused more jazz albums to be sold between 1971 and now than any other single source. I bought my first copy of the Book in 1980 or '81 and made it a pursuit to find all of the original material-much of which I was completely unfamiliar with.

I spent decades haunting record stores looking for old Blue Notes and ECMs. I've also spent decades playing the tunes (usually having corrected the errors) in places that pay BMI and ASCAP for the right of public performance. So while the composers weren't compensated for the use of their material in the Book, arguably, they made out much better financially from all of the free advertising. Now with CDs, I've bought most of the material from all of the Books at least twice and I know I'm not alone in this. Maybe I'm rationalizing and from a strict legal perspective I am, but I feel that I'm not morally out of bounds having bought the original Real Book as I've put back way more than I took and I think most people who bought the original Book have also done so. This isn't a good legal defense but I don't lose sleep at night.

This new version with the tunes bundled is just out and out theft. Pirated copies of the tunes are included in the package. There is no incentive to go out and search for the original albums. The moral gray area with the original Book is gone as this version can't even be considered free advertising. Jazz recordings are so minimally profitable that I get angry with any pirating of them.

If these guys aren't busted, I hope someone pirates their disc (sans recordings) and puts it on Pirate Bay or some other P2P. It would serve them right.

mark

jgbass · #18 04-21-2008, 09:32 AM

Calivox,

Good point. Probably Hal Leonard has no interest in this.

Not sure how one bust's these kinds of folks, but, for now, in my limited time today, I wrote an emal to amazon, since it is advertised on amazon. I suggested that their legal department look into this and outlined the multiple concerns about this software. I do not think amazon wants to have advertising on their site for illegal stuff.