Big band written lines

[Pstewart]

I have an audition for a bigband in my area coming up and part of the audition material, as you would expect, is a fast swing tune.

The Chart has a written walking line, would you say play that line or just walk normally over the changes. (i'm not talking about rhythmic hits, but a fully written line)

For the audition and also in a regular big band situation, should you expect to read written lines?

[Muusers]

yes, im in a bigband, so yes. you'd better learn to read fast then huh?

[Pat Harris]

If a composer took the time to write out a specific line, it's probably because there is something else happening in the band and those are the best notes to play against it. Thad Jones does this quite a bit. Generally, if something it notated, it's for a reason, but I've also heard recordings of tunes with "written" basslines only to discover that the bassist ignores it completely except for hits... so I don't know. If what you play sounds good, it probably is good.

[namraj]

nah improv it all the way :P

I achully wudnt advise that, unless you are certain your improv line will be better, i can't read music either and for the year i was in a big band i used to just improv everything, and get away with it, with the added bonus of alot of "wow your really good" from the band leader, but i was lucky, and wish i could read music. so i say learn to read the line, though in jazz being able to improv well is very important, so maybe take the line and embellish it subtlety where you think it has room to be embellished. But don't go over the top, less is more nearly 100% of the time in big band.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by Pat Harris

If a composer took the time to write out a specific line, it's probably because there is something else happening in the band and those are the best notes to play against it. Thad Jones does this quite a bit.

I think that this varies tremendously depending on the arranger. Oftentimes, you'll see a written bass line for an entire chart, with sections notated "as written," which clearly means that the arranger contemplated that in the other parts of the chart, the player has the option to play the changes rather than the written line.

As a general rule of thumb, if the chart has changes notated as well as a written line, I will assume that I have license to play the changes instead of the written part. That said, I'll usually play the written line the first time through to get a sense of what the arranger had in mind, and then deviate from that as I feel appropriate.

Pstewart, what chart is it?

Originally Posted by namraj

I achully wudnt advise that, unless you are certain your improv line will be better, i can't read music either and for the year i was in a big band i used to just improv everything, and get away with it, with the added bonus of alot of "wow your really good" from the band leader,

Obviously, whether you can get away with that is going to depend quite a bit on the type of charts the band is playing, the level of the band, and the familiarity of the leader with the bass book. If you were auditioning for my band, you would need to demonstrate an ability to sight-read at a high level, and we would know very quickly if you were trying to fake your way through a part.

[damonsmith]

If they gave you the written material for the audition, then you need to play it.
Actual performance practices are a whole other thing.

[txstatebass]

Play the ink when it says "as written" otherwise be a jazz player. Keep it solid and in the pocket.

On the other hand... Often the "written" bass part is not from the composer at all, but a published transcription of the bass part as played by whoever was in the band that day. That can give you historical insight into what it was to be a big band bassist of whatever era. I also use the written line for exercise. Some of those Richard Davis parts are wicked, and Nestico chart bass lines are usually spot-on examples of basic walking lines. But in both of those cases the recordings were usually made well in advance of the chart being published, and the publisher had the bass part transcribed off the recording.

[Ike Harris]

I used to do demos for Hal Leonard Publishing for their big band library, a lot of Nestico, etc. Just about everything was notated. It got down to almost a certain percentage of how much improvised line vs. written on those things. Probably 25% I'd say was what they wanted improvised. So it's generally expected that you could read anything that's written but make it your own, play like you own the band, but listen to what's going on and watch out for stuff that looks like it needs to be played as written.

Ike

[Marc Piane]

It is definitely a skill to know when you have to play the written line and when you can improvise a bit.

What level band is this? Better question... How old are you? I only ask because high school charts often have a really simple bass line written. They are not really expecting the bass player to be able to improvise a great line. As the charts get more advanced so do the lines.

I'd take Damon's suggestion and play exactly what is written for the audition.

[Sam Sherry]

Practice both ways and ask at the audition.

[Stumpy]

Read the lines. That is probably why they chose that particular piece. So you would HAVE to read the line. (or not )

[froedrick]

Keep in mind that publishers often require that the arranger/composer supply a 'written' part for educational music.

Speaking as a composer, I use an "as written" notation in the part when I want something specifically played by a rhythm instrument.

[chop_1992]

Quite often, the arranger might write a "suggested" bass line with chord changes over it . . . if the chord changes are there, it might mean that you can just improvise the line. Sometimes, it is marked that the written line is only the 1st or the 2nd time through (for example) maybe with horn backgrounds or whatever -- the arranger wants that specific line only when the horns play their background.

If the line is just there with no changes written above it, then you have to play the line.

If there are changes and a written line, I usually ask if they want the exact line . . . or if i can play my own line in that style.

Good arrangers can write really good bass lines . . . bad arrangers, well . . . just ask what the arranger or bandleader wants. If they do not seem to know, then that is an indication that you should tap into all of your bass wisdom and just do what seems best for the music.

John

[jtlownds]

If you are going to be playing in a professional level big band, you definitely need to be reading the charts. Even the drummers are reading in these bands. Big bands are notorious for long intros, endings and turnarounds with rhythmic arpeggios where you play in unison with the horns. You may have to pedal on the 3 for 8 bars at some point in the arrangement. Many charts feature 2 or 3 key changes in the tune, and there may be places where you have to drop out completely. If you are not reading the chart, you will not know when these things occur. You will occasionally come across a guitar chart in the folder. That is your indication to do your own thing over the changes.

[chop_1992]

Right -- generally "professional" big band charts for bass are made up of a mixture of written lines and improvised sections. Sometimes you have to be improvising the line and then play a written figure or a hit, and then jump back to improvising. Sometimes a chart will have a lot of written lines, then just a few bars of changes, then back to the written line.

[Pstewart]

I'm 17 and the band is for my age group and a bit above but not too many below i don't think, though it is a selection from the whole of my country (albeit a small one.). I have no idea what the song is, and it doesn't help that it's a rhythm changes, they said they didn't use names to avoid copyright infringements.

Usually i would've learnt the line and asked but the audition is only able to be done through video, so that's not available. The changes are written above the bass line and there is no "as written" marking. And the section that is provided for the audition material doesn't ahve any rhytmic hits for the bass.

I may have to see if i can inquire, but for now i'll assume i'm not learning the line, because in all honest it's pretty so-so.

Thanks everyone for all the feedback.

[Freddels]

If the audition is by video then I would suggest you cover all the bases. Explain at the beginning that you intend to read the part as written for the first time through and then you will walk the changes on the second time.
This will give them an idea of your reading skills (albeit it's not really sight reading since you get to work it up and then play it) and your ability to walk the changes.

[chop_1992]

Originally Posted by Freddels

If the audition is by video then I would suggest you cover all the bases. Explain at the beginning that you intend to read the part as written for the first time through and then you will walk the changes on the second time.
This will give them an idea of your reading skills (albeit it's not really sight reading since you get to work it up and then play it) and your ability to walk the changes.

Freddels' tip is probably the best advice -- explain what you are doing in the vid -- play the written line one time, then play an improvised walking line on the changes one time. Good luck!

[Pstewart]

Yea Freddels that sounds like the biz to me, thanks everyone for replying.

[Phil Smith]

Play the dots on the paper and make it sound good. Part of what they may be looking for is how good you are at delivering what's on the chart. If you play the notes and it swings even though the line might be lame, they're gonna want to see you in the flesh. Take the time to play the notated line as perfect as you can get it.