Can classical bass players learn jazz?

[jeisdorfer]

I'm an orchestral bass player (went to a Conservatory for music performance, currently gigging in New England) and I want to start exploring some other genres - jazz, bluegrass, etc. I played jazz in middle/high school, but at that point it was all written out.

I bought a technique book, but that was a complete was of money - I don't need to know HOW to play the bass, and I understand theory. So I bought the Hal Leonard Real Book, pulled out a few songs I knew, wrote out the chords/scales, alright .... how do I make music out of it now? I played along with a recording, sure, it works, but it's boring-sounding as hell. I wanna make some music!

I know this is a very classical/theoretical approach to playing jazz, but that's all I know. My ears aren't as acute as a jazz player, I can't listen to a bass line and then repeat it note for note. Any suggestions?

[Ed Fuqua]

Well the whole idea is NOT to listen to what somebody else played and try to play that, the idea is to come up a line of your own. You will have picked up a lot of skill sets as a legit player that will serve you well but, from my experience, the thing that you don't really get from that background is an ear for functional harmony.

So I would say that you would be well served by working on ear training (in some pretty specific ways), working on hearing and understanding chord function and dumping the idea that it's simply about playing a scale over a chord.

There's a thread here of mine called REALLY LEARNING A TUNE that has an approach that's served me in good stead, I also have a book that's specifically about creating a walking line that communicates intent that some folks have found useful.

[LowDog]

Try Rufus Reid's book "The Evolving Bassist". Having classical chops will allow you to do almost anything, all you need to know is the style.

Have fun!

[chop_1992]

Sure, you can play jazz. What you need to do first is to find some people to play with. Make yourself available for jam sessions or rehearsals -- call some people. Just jump in, schedule a jam session and either play tunes that you have memorized, or take the fake book that you have and play with some jazz players. (Even just a guitar player, or one horn player -- better would be a quartet). They might be better than you, or worse than you, but you just need a starting point to express yourself in an improvised way. I think once you make it a goal to play with someone else, then "what you need to learn" will just become obvious to you. Don't wait until you are ready to do it -- just go and play. It is hard to prepare and get the "what you need to learn" out of a book before you even start trying to play with people. Listen to jazz records from different periods--most of the answers to your questions are found on recordings. Once you have a practical basis, then you can start to check out different books for purely technical information.

[Paul Warburton]

Good advice from two great jazz bassists....you got lucky.
Question..when you do listen to jazz recordigs, are you aware of what we call form? Or, are you aware of where the improvising players ARE, in regard to the musical form of the chord structure? I feel you need to really learn how to listen before you even pick up your bass. This backs up what Ed said about using your ears instead, or along with, your classical training.
Get Ed's book because he told me he would kick some bread back to me and then....

[MR PC]

Originally Posted by chop_1992

. Don't wait until you are ready to do it -- just go and play.

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

Good advice from two great jazz bassists....you got lucky.
Get Ed's book because he told me he would kick some bread back to me and then....

100% +++

[txstatebass]

Sure you can learn to play jazz...just don't tell your section-mates.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by chop_1992

Sure, you can play jazz. What you need to do first is to find some people to play with. Make yourself available for jam sessions or rehearsals -- call some people. Just jump in, schedule a jam session and either play tunes that you have memorized, or take the fake book that you have and play with some jazz players. (Even just a guitar player, or one horn player -- better would be a quartet). They might be better than you, or worse than you, but you just need a starting point to express yourself in an improvised way. I think once you make it a goal to play with someone else, then "what you need to learn" will just become obvious to you. Don't wait until you are ready to do it -- just go and play. It is hard to prepare and get the "what you need to learn" out of a book before you even start trying to play with people. Listen to jazz records from different periods--most of the answers to your questions are found on recordings. Once you have a practical basis, then you can start to check out different books for purely technical information.

Spot on.

[hdiddy]

To add... I wouldn't get hung up on theory just yet either. I would concern yourself with being able to improvise nice concrete lines with diatonic tones and playing with good feel/rhythm first and most of all walking a good bass line or broken 2 feel. Much mileage to be found in the simple things.

[Sam Sherry]

Since you mention it, playing bluegrass may be a good way to get started with hearing a piece and playing it in real-time. Pop on some bluegrass CD's, set the player for "random" and play along -- you'll know right away when you've made a clam!

Playing jazz well is a deep study, but it will very positively affect your "legit" playing. Take your time, have fun and report back.

[kamakiriad7]

As a jazz musician who's currently attempting to learn classical, I feel I can share some insight. Try to transcribe other player's bass lines/solos from recordings as much as you can. Also, try transcribing from other instruments: sax melody, trumpet solo, and so on. This is a great way to get ideas. (By transcribing I don't necessarily mean writing down - I just mean figuring out by ear and memorizing, although writing down is a good practice as well.)

Many have said it already, and I agree whole-heartedly: get out and play with others as much as you can. If you find consistent difficulty, say, improvising a walking line in an f blues, then it's good to consult a book on the matter and try again.

That said, there are familiar patterns which occur in jazz walking lines and in latin settings. Mike Downes' "The Jazz Bass Line Book" is excellent for demonstrating many of these patterns and variations on them, including note-for-note transcriptions of bass lines by Ray Brown, Scott LaFaro, Israel Crosby, Paul Chambers, Ron Carter, and others.

Now... how do you get a good attack while up-bowing the E-string??

[jallenbass]

One thing that I had to overcome as a classical player learning jazz was not to follow the lead line tempo wise. We're always adjusting tempo depending on the conductor and soloist. I found myself slowing down a lot and I realized it was because a horn player was playing behind the beat. Now I just stick to my time. Everyone is happier.

[robgrow]

Where else could you get good advice from Ed, John, Paul and everyone else? (Not such a sad state of affairs after all. )

It seems to me that having classical chops is is a huge advantage for an aspiring jazz bassist.

[Don Higdon]

You have to learn to walk before you can run. No pun intended.
A jam session can be an intimidating environment. You don't need all that pressure. Fear can totally prevent learning.
Some of the most fun I've had has been playing duets, bass and tenor sax, with a friend.
You employ all the principles of jazz, with the luxury of actually being able to hear what you're doing. Without a piano, you learn damned quickly how to convey the harmonic structure of a tune. Feedback is immediate and low key. You can learn as much in an hour as in 4 hours at a session. If you're working with a friend you can stop any time and discuss what you're doing right or wrong. You can't do this at a session. A friend is more likely to be willing to spend just an hour helping you get started. You can do this anywhere, any time. This is a way to build some self-confidence before exposing yourself. I wish more of the people who show up at sessions had done this.
The late, great Ed Fuqua once said "If you can't play it slow, you sure as hell can't play it fast." This is in the same vein.
Good luck.

[AlphaMale]

Jazz isn't about repeating phrases by ear. Study your Chords which I'm sure you already know. Look at a fake book and practice improvising walking bass lines.

[Audiophage]

Originally Posted by txstatebass

Sure you can learn to play jazz...just don't tell your section-mates.

I'm actually in an orchestra where everyone in the double bass section also plays jazz.

jeisdorfer, How much jazz do you listen to?

[Don Higdon]

Originally Posted by txstatebass

Sure you can learn to play jazz...just don't tell your section-mates.

The Metropolitan Opera Orchestra has several players with top notch jazz credentials

[txstatebass]

Jeez guys, I know that. It was a JOKE. Sorry if it wasn't that funny. But, to be more useful to the forum:

Absolutely! I agree with everything said here. Go forth and SWING my son!

[abaguer]

I believe Tony Levin was originally an Orchestral player who says Steve Gadd was responsible for teaching him to learn how to swing. Now he's a feel monster.

[TobyBrodel]

Originally Posted by Don Higdon

The late, great Ed Fuqua once said........

Ed's still alive guys. I'm pretty sure anyway.

sigi busch's jazz bass compendium is great for learning to create tasty lines and it gives you the basics for constructing a solo too.

there's heaps out there, listen to the greats and play like there's no tomorrow