CCNY vs UNT vs Berklee.

[syw902]

Hey, I'm from Asia. I'm going to study abroad for US.

I'm thinking about select school. (CCNY, UNT and berklee)

Actually I really Hope New school.. But Tofle Score....!!!!!!!!!

how they compare? Please advice for me.

[Ed Fuqua]

Only one of the schools you list is actually in NYC.

[damonsmith]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Only one of the schools you list is actually in NYC.

Yeah, maybe steer clear of that one!

[TheBasicBassist]

I go to CCNY it has a great music program and the tuition isn't horrible at all.
$2000 a semester. And if you make it into the graduate program afterwards, you
can study with John Patitucci. The jazz program is top-notch, as is the recording (sonic arts program)
the area isn't bad (it's on the good side of Harlem)

feel free to pm me if you have any other questions brother.

-- John

[syw902]

I've heard that UNT and Berklee are good schools.

But, I've got no infor. of CCNY.

How's CCNY students instruments playing ability compare to other two school?

Which school is best for studying Jazz?


Are those two schools better than CCNY?


I got to know this, so please give me your help!

[TheBasicBassist]

CCNY has some KILLIN' bassists as students.
I'd schedule a visit (if you can).

The majority of musicians who attend CCNY,
attend because of their jazz program because
when the go on for their graduate degree they
have the ability to study under one of the
great bass players of our time. IMO.

But let me say my piece and leave it at this.

Education is like music, there is no best, really.
Who's to say Wooten is better than Clarke, ect. ect.
Who's to say that Harvard is better than CCNY
for any degree?
The education you receive from whichever school
you attend is going to be the same, give or take make
1-2 classes. But a HUGE majority of your music education
will be on you, you need to practice it, you need to study
it, you need to live, love and breathe music. The college
you attend provides you with the medium to learn
but you need to unlock the potentials of that medium.
So to say one college is better than the other is to say
that jazz basses are better than precision basses, everyone's
got their own answer.

If you want my reasons for going to CCNY,
I went because I wanted to study under John Pattituci
after graduation, maybe I'm a tool for doing that, maybe
I'm not I'll tell you in a few years.
CCNY is in the heart of one of the biggest Jazz cities in the
world probably, I've seen Ron Carter playin' in the village
some nights. RON CARTER! It's just amazing, it's a beautiful
city, a beautiful environment, the people here if you give them
a chance are the best. I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I wish you luck in choosing your school.

Keep the low-end pumpin'.

-- John

[dannystone]

As someone who attended both UNT and CCNY (undergrad and grad) here's my .02 cents:

UNT has a large student body, with a proportionally larger amount of playing ensembles. While the lab bands get most of the glamour, there's also groups that concentrate on funk, latin, vocals, historical repetoire, along with a large amount of small combos. The classes required are pretty standard: improv, theory (jazz and western classical), arranging, etc... UNT does have a rhythm-section master class, which involves 4 rhythm sections playing tunes for the faculty, who then critiques the performance. This class was probably one of my favorites to take - the faculty doesn't mince words, and their critiques are spot-on. The Dallas-Fort Worth area is decent as far as gigs - nothing like NYC, but the competition isn't quite as intense, and there are opportunities to play. It's also a lot cheaper to live there, even though a car is almost required, and the summers suck.

CCNY has a much smaller student body, and fewer ensembles. I'm not too familiar with the undergraduate courses, but I know for the graduate jazz students, there's not a whole lot of jazz courses - most of them take the same history and theory seminars as the musicology and history students. I'm sure you're aware of NYC's place in the jazz world; it's expensive, but the music scene more than makes up for it.

I didn't take lessons with Pattitucci (I was a musicology major), but I studied with Lynn Seaton at UNT, and he's one of the best (if not the best) teachers I've ever had. He's an excellent player, always available to his students, and knows what he's talking about. He's in the "Ask a Pro" section here; I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you more.

[ZonGuy]

Originally Posted by dannystone

As someone who attended both UNT and CCNY (undergrad and grad) here's my .02 cents:

UNT has a large student body, with a proportionally larger amount of playing ensembles. While the lab bands get most of the glamour, there's also groups that concentrate on funk, latin, vocals, historical repetoire, along with a large amount of small combos. The classes required are pretty standard: improv, theory (jazz and western classical), arranging, etc... UNT does have a rhythm-section master class, which involves 4 rhythm sections playing tunes for the faculty, who then critiques the performance. This class was probably one of my favorites to take - the faculty doesn't mince words, and their critiques are spot-on. The Dallas-Fort Worth area is decent as far as gigs - nothing like NYC, but the competition isn't quite as intense, and there are opportunities to play. It's also a lot cheaper to live there, even though a car is almost required, and the summers suck.

CCNY has a much smaller student body, and fewer ensembles. I'm not too familiar with the undergraduate courses, but I know for the graduate jazz students, there's not a whole lot of jazz courses - most of them take the same history and theory seminars as the musicology and history students. I'm sure you're aware of NYC's place in the jazz world; it's expensive, but the music scene more than makes up for it.

I didn't take lessons with Pattitucci (I was a musicology major), but I studied with Lynn Seaton at UNT, and he's one of the best (if not the best) teachers I've ever had. He's an excellent player, always available to his students, and knows what he's talking about. He's in the "Ask a Pro" section here; I'm sure he'd be happy to tell you more.

I didn't go to UNT but I have worked with a lot of players that have and believe the above is very accurate about UNT.

[RHFusillo]

Berklee is a good trade school, or at least it was in 1975-6, when I attended. Berklee offers programs which turn out competent professional musicians. The best part of Berklee for me was to be in Boston, which had (at least in the 1970's) its own very interesting music scene.

Berklee has expanded a great deal since I was there.

[MNAirHead]

I play with guys from Berklee

They have great playing and theory skills - unfortunately they do not study the business and street skills of the business.

[luvmuziq]

TheBasicBassist, well said. anyway, in any form of the art, if that's your main concern, then you're missing the point. most of the innovators didn't even go to school. those who went, the like of miles etc... always stopping short of giving any credit to those institutions for their musical development. when it come to Jazz, read the history, it rooted from the street, hence there's no better place than ny in that regard, just open your ears, play with others, listen to the great, eat, sleep and breath jazz, and practice till you drop, that's what matters.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by luvmuziq

TheBasicBassist, well said. anyway, in any form of the art, if that's your main concern, then you're missing the point. most of the innovators didn't even go to school. those who went, the like of miles etc... always stopping short of giving any credit to those institutions for their musical development. when it come to Jazz, read the history, it rooted from the street, hence there's no better place than ny in that regard, just open your ears, play with others, listen to the great, eat, sleep and breath jazz, and practice till you drop, that's what matters.

To each their own. UNT, for one, has a fantastic music school with teachers who can hold their own against any self-taught player with the essential street cred to hold a music lover's attention IMHO.

[Michael Case]

I went to CCNY, it's a good school. I have no experience with other schools, but many guys I met at CCNY went to the New School and transferred to CCNY and a lot of the grad students went to Berkley for their undergrad degree. The tuition is cheap, and it's in NYC so you'll get a of opportunities to play with folks in the larger NYC scene. When I went undergrads also studied with JP. That doesn't happen right away though, I studied with Sean Smith for the bulk of my time at CCNY and he is a great player and teacher too. It's a small program, which I felt was good, more personalized attention and you really get to know your fellow students very well. I made some good friends in CCNY.

[luvmuziq]

+1 To each his own.
Don't know what 'essential street' means, i do however know what is 'street' and where i'm from it's not a "credit", it's a way of life.

I have no doubt that any of my professors from Berklee or elsewhere can hold their own against those "self taught"(though i've never in my 36 yrs met a self taught musician, for we all at some point would receive instructions musically or else from our surroundings).

Ask any of those professors about their source of inspiration, it is unlikely they would even mention any of those institutions, and it would make sense, because Jazz didn't originate from there, take it or leave it, Jazz originated from the street. Period. Go watch some Dizzy's interviews and tell me what you think. If i'm not creative, got no talent, unwilling to submerge my self into understanding where this music comes from, play with others, listen to the greats, eat sleep and breath jazz, practice till i drop, no amount of money or time i spent at berklee would be able to save me. all i'd have to show for it like most us, is a piece of paper, talking about theory all day without an instrument in hands and some regurgitated licks to impress those who don't know.

My advice to this young man or woman asking the question is to pick a place, and make music your priority.

[Johnny L]

Originally Posted by luvmuziq

My advice to this young man or woman asking the question is to pick a place, and make music your priority.

I'd say that's darn good advice for a music major.

[almal]

It depends if it's a master's degree or bachelor's. If you want to be in New York, going to a New York school will be good for making connections, but a lot of UNT musicians move to New York, anyways so it's a good place to build a network, as well. Also, I've seen a master class with Lynn Seaton (who teaches at UNT) and he is an exceptional teacher who really has a lot to say as an educator.
CUNY is good and cheap.
I've heard great musicians come out of Berklee, but it's too expensive, in my opinion. Paying 32,000$ a year to go to law school--yeah that makes sense. Paying 32,000$ a year to be a musician, not so much.