cross fingerings

perytojie · #1 07-19-2005, 06:33 PM

hello there!

I'm not so sure what Mr.Warburton is talking about in one of his TB Double Bass Sampler reply concerning steve swanson's solo playing...

Quote:

I like the way you move down the board and use cross fingerings on the way

what do you exactly mean by "cross fingerings"? would it be "cross" like "across" the fingerboard or do you refer to a more advanced technique like rabbath's?

Aaron Saunders · #2 07-19-2005, 11:54 PM

You know, I was thinking the exact same thing...waiting for an answer!

Marcus Johnson · #3 07-20-2005, 04:47 AM

You know, cross fingerings... the ones that make you cross because only SHWINGGGG and WARMBOTTOM can pull 'em off.

**Damon Rondeau** · #4 07-20-2005, 06:04 AM

Or you gotta cross yourself before you try 'em...

Paul Warburton · #5 07-21-2005, 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perytojie

hello there!
I'm not so sure what Mr.Warburton is talking about in one of his TB Double Bass Sampler reply concerning steve swanson's solo playing...
what do you exactly mean by "cross fingerings"? would it be "cross" like "across" the fingerboard or do you refer to a more advanced technique like rabbath's?

First off, perytojie (that was the hardest thing I ever had to type) please don't call me Mr. Warburton or i'll never speak to you again...Paul, PW, Pull, Warmbuttocks, Warmbottom, Warmbaton, Warbutton...whatever.
I was refering to how most players with a fair amount of chops have no problem moving down the fingerboard towards the bridge, using gravity to help. I was saying that I like what steve does moving back up towads the scroll and using cross fingerings on the way, rather than just sticking to one string.
Clear?

Aaron Saunders · #6 07-21-2005, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

First off, perytojie (that was the hardest thing I ever had to type) please don't call me Mr. Warburton or i'll never speak to you again...Paul, PW, Pull, Warmbuttocks, Warmbottom, Warmbaton, Warbutton...whatever.
I was refering to how most players with a fair amount of chops have no problem moving down the fingerboard towards the bridge, using gravity to help. I was saying that I like what steve does moving back up towads the scroll and using cross fingerings on the way, rather than just sticking to one string.
Clear?

I had to read that last line twice, but I think I understand -- you simply mean moving across the strings on the higher range of the bass instead of descending down the string? So if one were playing a descending F scale, instead of going down the G string until you reached the F on the D string, you're going across the strings and landing on the F around the heel on the A string?

Hmm. Interesting. I used to avoid that for the sake of intonation/tonal balance (and because I'm studying Simandl method for classical and applying those fingerings to jazz,) but I think I'll be practicing that tonight.

Paul Warburton · #7 07-22-2005, 03:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

I had to read that last line twice, but I think I understand -- you simply mean moving across the strings on the higher range of the bass instead of descending down the string? So if one were playing a descending F scale, instead of going down the G string until you reached the F on the D string, you're going across the strings and landing on the F around the heel on the A string?

Hmm. Interesting. I used to avoid that for the sake of intonation/tonal balance (and because I'm studying Simandl method for classical and applying those fingerings to jazz,) but I think I'll be practicing that tonight.

Almost. Wish I could show you. Imagine coming down the G, going toward the scroll. He's thinking: "I'm gonna descend straight down the G string really fast. Then, instead of continuing, he stops in his track at, let's say, C on theG st. and plays a quick C scale over the G,D, and A strings, then
goes back and continues his descention.
The big point i'm trying to make is: Gravity is great. When you are ascending, the gravity just helps you pull it off. When you are descending, You're going back, away from gravitie's help...listen to some jazz players and try playing a fast descending idea...it's a helluva lot harder and to me, stands out when it's done right.

perytojie · #8 07-25-2005, 11:54 AM

First of all, thanks for those replies PW...

I have another thought to share about this cross fingerings technique.
Sure, it's great you can play fast and clean descending lines crossing the strings, but i find most players (even world-renowned std-up bass players) often :
- overuse the technique, or use it on awkward occasions (ok you can do it, what else can you play?)
- forget what melody means ( music's all about that! ), playing patterns or sequences
- lack the rhythmic nuances of players using pull-offs, hammer-ons, glissandos etc. rather than crossing the string (resulting in more attacked notes) in order to fight gravity.

In anyway this could become a general rule for all cross-fingerings-type std-up bassists ( i could say mraz don't get trapped by his own technique and stays lyrical, for example...) It's just like any other technique trick : it's not just because you know how to do it that you should do it!

anonymous0726 · #9 07-25-2005, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perytojie

"I GOT KICKED OUT OF A FRENCH TRAIN HALF-WAY THROUGH THE TRIP BECAUSE I WAS CARRYING AN ACOUSTIC BASS"

Did you tell them that it was French bass?

Anyhow, good tehcnique is never a bad thing. What PW is talking about I call 'playing the neck diagonally'. Good technique gives you more options...you just have to have musical taste, no matter what your technical skill gives you.

perytojie · #10 07-25-2005, 08:56 PM

i agree with you on "the more you have the more you can chose from" thought. anyway i guess the more you practice, the wiser you get; you learn to be patient and try to find satisfaction with what you are (what you play) and eventually the more you practice, the older you get!!!

About this train issue going on in France, i'm used to have all sorts of problems. It's already more than a 100 bucks i lost paying fines because nothing's been thought about in order to carry our favorite instrument with us. Basically, you're not allowed to carry such thing with you in a french train, the only alternative being services from private transporters. But i'm not prepared to pay 50 extra bucks everytime i take those trains ( average of 4 one-way tickets a months ) and send my bass two days before i play a gig... i forgot to mention i'm french...

i've not travelled yet by plane with an upright but i guess it's almost impossible to get in those with it!

TimoMetzemakers · #11 07-26-2005, 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by perytojie

Basically, you're not allowed to carry such thing with you in a french train

Sorry to hijack the tread like that, but now you've got me worried.

Could you please elaborate on that issue? I've travelled with my bass on many occasions (mainly on the Paris/Bordeaux TGV line) and nobody ever cared. Is it really forbidden?

perytojie · #12 07-26-2005, 06:28 PM

Well the regulation's very precise about what you can or cannot take along with you. The part about sizes is especially significant. If you add up the width, length and depth of your luggage, it shouldn't exceed a specific dimension which is something about one hundred inches or something (i might be wrong with conversion as we don't use inches in france!). So unless you own a really small bass it won't do. Nevertheless, there are a few exceptions to the regulation which are : sports boards, bicycles, and strollers.

The French Railway Company offers an alternative for luggage exceeding the required dimensions but refuse to take care of musical instruments. Lots of other companies propose that sort of service but won't accept instruments. The only remaining option, far unrealistic, is sending the bass using a private transporter like UPS or something.

I wrote lots of letters to the Railway Company but they only sent me back pre-typed letters...

Well, now, most of the time i travel with no problem. Sometimes controllers even make jokes about how big it is or get interested about this huge weird thing. Unfortunately, from time to time you get yourself a frustrated, nit-picking ****er who just won't understand you couldn't have done it in an other way... sad but true. At the same time, controllers get commissions on the fines they give and as well are on oath, like cops, and just go beyond their rights.

Don't worry though, i never had any trouble on a TGV. I guess as it is more expensive to travel in those, controllers may be a bit more loose about regulations but... you still will be an outlaw.

TimoMetzemakers · #13 07-27-2005, 06:23 AM

perytojie, merci pour toutes ces infos.

Well, the other option (for me) would be a road trip to Paris. It would take longer than the train (five hours instead of three), be more expensive, and more tiresome. (Yes, we Europeans are wusses as far as long road trips are concerned.)

The only advantage of that solution is that it's always nice to have a car in Paris after the gig. The last subway train is at 0100 and good luck finding a cab that will take a double bass! I once waited from 0200 to 0500 on the boulevard de Sébastopol after a gig at the Sunset.

Again, sorry for the thread hijack, everybody!

Paul Warburton · #14 07-27-2005, 06:26 AM

That usually never happens around here......(HA)

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #15 07-27-2005, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimoMetzemakers

(Yes, we Europeans are wusses as far as long road trips are concerned.)

While I applaud you on your excellent bilingual skills (I only speak English and "Hick English"), I feel I must inform you that the plural of "wuss" is "weese".

TimoMetzemakers · #16 07-27-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

[...]the plural of "wuss" is "weese".

No kidding?

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #17 07-27-2005, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimoMetzemakers

No kidding?

Actually, I just made that **** up.

But that's what it is in our house!

TimoMetzemakers · #18 07-27-2005, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Actually, I just made that **** up.

But that's what it is in our house!

Well, then... it sounds good and rhymes with "cheese". It's definitely a keeper.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #19 07-27-2005, 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimoMetzemakers

Well, then... it sounds good and rhymes with "cheese". It's definitely a keeper.

Almost: it rhymes with "Geese". And may I take this opportunity to once again compliment your language skills. I wish we Americans were brought up with two and three sets of language skills being the norm. My German is so rusty by now that I'd probably need a tetanus shot if I attempted to speak it these days...

anonymous0726 · #20 07-27-2005, 09:47 AM

Boulevard de Sesspool? Not that's a sh*tty hang....

The trick with cabs is to lay down the bass so that the cab driver either can't see it, or at least how big it is. Take off your wheel and hold it behind your back. WHen the cab stops, toss the wheel on the floor of the back seat so that the guy can obviously hear that your stuff has begun being loaded in his car and rool down the window while you're talking to him (giving directions, being friendly, whatever). Turn around and grab the bass and get the thing in the cab -- pretending to ignore anything he has to say. Shut the dear and yell -- a bit louder than you need to, signifying that you can't hear a daned word that he's saying -- "Let's go!"

It works in NYC, anyhow.