Double Stops?

*fenderbass* · #1 07-21-2006, 08:02 AM

Here's a conversation starter (hopefully).

I'd like some ideas for double stop note choices and how you like to use them.

For example, I'll slide into a root-fifth double stop sometimes but I admit, I'm not very imaginative with them and don't use them much.

What note combos do you like to use? Situations? Octives? Players to listen to?

Clay_Bass · #2 07-21-2006, 09:17 AM

the 3rd and 7th of a chord. 1 and 5 or in the unlikely event that its a sus chord 4 and 7. In a group playing context I dont use them that often.

Theres a Ray Brown thing IIRC its called open string blues? Its a blues in E baisically just usuing 3 and 7 and open strings for a blues.
Scott Lafaro also did some chording with the Bill Evans Trio.

Jeff Guevin · #3 07-21-2006, 09:25 AM

The old major tenth thing still sounds nice to me. Christian McBride on Joe Henderson's Lush Life does some nice double-stopping work on "Isfahan".

kherber · #4 07-21-2006, 09:51 AM

I guess you can just try your way through the chord, playing thirds, fourths, sixths, whatever, looking for a two note harmony that suits you.

I've always used double-stops sparingly--in solos, or on the wrap-up of a tune to provide more fill, etc. Strumming two (or more) strings simultaneously, you lose the punch and drive you get from plucking a single string, so it's not always appropriate, depending, of course, on the tune or music style you're playing.

What I find myself doing a lot lately, is creating a double stop by playing a second note on top of an already ringing tone. Switching from an A chord to E, for instance, I'll hit the E on the downbeat, but keep my finger on the A for a time, allowing both strings to ring together for a little bit--sometimes just a short moment, sometimes a little longer, depending on what's going down musically.

It makes a nice double-stop kind of tone without loss of punch, and has a kind of liquid, flowing quality to it.

Doc

jazzy bass man · #5 07-21-2006, 12:31 PM

I saw a guy in NYC recently named Alex Blake, with the Randy Weston African Rhythms Trio. He did some crazy double and triple stop work. Check it

Alex Scott · #6 07-21-2006, 03:29 PM

major and minor 10ths sound good, and minor 7ths, like on a ii -V play A on the e string and c on the g string, then d on the a string and the same c. you can comp a little like that. Sliding 10th's in major and minor up and down the bass sounds good too.

jlilley · #7 07-21-2006, 06:08 PM

Check out David Friesen for his use of major and minor 10ths, double and triple stops as well as some serious stumming. These are the things that first struck me about his playing and we've spent alot of time working on them for the year or so I've been taking lessons with him.
John

Zachmozach · #8 07-21-2006, 07:02 PM

Jlilley, How do you like Friesen as a teacher if you don't mind my asking? I've seen him play a few times and I like his playing although I've only ever got to see him on his short scale length electric, but he plays great. I think he scared the girl I was with when he came to talk to us though.

Aaron Saunders · #9 07-21-2006, 08:47 PM

Mostly 10ths for double stops for me...they're a really nice sound, but I'm finding our quintet is sounding a bit cluttered lately, so I'm toning down a bit.

Jazzin' · #10 07-21-2006, 09:15 PM

I've always had a thing for tritones. In a minor chord I pick out the 3rd and 6th, in a Dominant 7th chord I pick out the 3rd and 7th.

Paul Warburton · #11 07-22-2006, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zachmozach

Jlilley, How do you like Friesen as a teacher if you don't mind my asking? I've seen him play a few times and I like his playing although I've only ever got to see him on his short scale length electric, but he plays great. I think he scared the girl I was with when he came to talk to us though.

Did David try to give her Jesus? Jeeze!

Marcus Johnson · #12 07-22-2006, 05:01 AM

...probably scared the Hell out of her...

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #13 07-22-2006, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Scott

major and minor 10ths sound good, and minor 7ths, like on a ii -V play A on the e string and c on the g string, then d on the a string and the same c. you can comp a little like that.

I agree with the above, and would add that if you add the major 7th to this interval collection, you can not only play ii-V-I progressions in either of two "positions", but you can play guide tones for just about any progression out there. One of the things I ask every student to do with every tune they learn is to play double stop shell voicings through the harmony of the entire tune. Usually, once someone has done this sucessfully, they know the harmony of the tune much better, and they already have several strategies for guide tone lines mapped out, which is a great aid in soloing.

Double stops in the jazz idiom can be broken down into two basic categories: One set of major, minor, and dominant shell voicings can be played in all 12 keys in 10ths spanning from the 4th string to the 1st string, and another set can be played as 7ths spanning from the 3rd string to the 1st string. These two types can then be easily mixed to facilitate voice leading.

An easy way to start praticing this concept is to work out the voice leading for standard progressions like ii-V-I and turnarounds. If you designate all of the 10ths (4th to 1st string double stops) as "Type I" shell voicings and then designate the 7ths (3rd to 1st string double stops) as "Type II" shell voicings, then you'll find that the most logical voice leading for ii-V-I progressions works out as follows:

ii - V - I (progression)
I... II...I (voicing type)

or

ii - V - I (progression)
II...I...II (voicing type)

Assuming both examples are in the key of Cma, the first one ends up as:

F....F....E
D...G....C (10th-7th-10th)

and the second example ends up:

C....B....B
D....G....C (7th-10th-7th)

Both of these examples require movement of a whole step or less from chord to chord. Once these basic voice leading principles are established, voice leading an entire progression by switching back and forth from voicing types starts to look a lot easier.

jlilley · #14 07-22-2006, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zachmozach

Jlilley, How do you like Friesen as a teacher if you don't mind my asking? I've seen him play a few times and I like his playing although I've only ever got to see him on his short scale length electric, but he plays great. I think he scared the girl I was with when he came to talk to us though.

I really enjoy David's teaching style and my playing has really improved while studying with him. I especially like the fact that when he comes up to Seattle, his first trip is private lessons and the second trip is an ensamble lesson (he teachs all instruments and vocals). It is great to be able to get his input on group playing as well as work on things privately. He is really a great guy and I'd recommend him as a teacher.
John

Paul Warburton · #15 07-23-2006, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by *fenderbass*

What note combos do you like to use? Situations? Octives? Players to listen to?

For myself, the two players to listen to that can show you what's possible in terms od 2 and three note stops are: Red Mitchell, altough he tunes in 5ths, so unless you tune in 5ths, this won't apply to many.
If you tune the standard 4ths, Michael Moore can actually walk quarter note bass lines all in double and triple stops. I saw and heard him do this in a concert here in town with my old duo partner, Dale Bruning. So I thought' I bet his action is way low.' So on a break, I went up and checked out his bass....I was dumbstruck that his action was, in my opinion, way high!

Alex Scott · #16 07-23-2006, 07:59 AM

I was suprised to read in his book, melodic playing in thumb position that his preferred string height is G 1/4 inch, D 3/8 inch A 3/8 inch E 7/16 inch. I think that is high too.

Zachmozach · #17 07-24-2006, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jlilley

I really enjoy David's teaching style and my playing has really improved while studying with him. I especially like the fact that when he comes up to Seattle, his first trip is private lessons and the second trip is an ensamble lesson (he teachs all instruments and vocals). It is great to be able to get his input on group playing as well as work on things privately. He is really a great guy and I'd recommend him as a teacher.
John

Ya once I get through some more technique stuff I figured I'd try to get some lessons from him, but as of now I don't think I'd be ready. I think he'd probably be a great guy for concept teaching especially judging by his approach to the music and his playing.

And for whoever it was that asked he didn't try to give her Jesus whatever that's about. Plus she didn't like him licking his fingers and rubbing his bass to get the squeaking sounds. Although the conversation about it afterwards was really funny.