Doubling in Cramped Spaces

Kevin Hsieh · #1 04-09-2008, 06:34 PM

Salcott's response to my ad for an upright bass stand prompted this question.

How do you guys deal with doubling in a small confined space (i.e. pit orchestra)? The pit is unbelievably small and the music director has approached me about figuring out a way to save space (which means not lying the bass down on its side).

I was thinking about a stand for both instruments for quick switches, but looking for tips!

Thanks in advance!

Kev

Uncletoad · #2 04-09-2008, 06:42 PM

I have a couple gigs where I can prop it in a corner face first leaned in. It's out of traffic and standing up without much chance of falling down or getting stepped on.

When I double without room for me to lay the bass down to play the Fender I don't double at all. I'll just play whatever I can on the String Bass and be done with it.

I'm either on the floor or in the corner. I'll not use a stand again. They scare me.

Mike Goodbar · #3 04-09-2008, 06:53 PM

I was playing a show recently (Cats) and I was thinking how cool it would have been to have an NS Bass Cello. No real substitute for upright, but I've heard it does a decent job approximating both double bass and slab.

gnergaard · #4 04-09-2008, 11:55 PM

I started to use a stand for doubling gigs, too, but found that I like it so much that I use it for practically every gig I do.
I'm the only person i know who does this, and I just can't figure out why. Saving space is a huge concern, of course, but in addition, switching instruments is much faster. And in crowed (or dare I say ROWDY) rooms I actually think the bass is safer. No one is going to kick it or trip over it at least.
I wish I could tell you what stand it is! I found it in the old Woodwind brasswind catalog years ago. It's similar to the Hamilton bass stand in that it has a sort of 'yoke' the bass leans back into and a cup holder that the peg sits in, but the base is a little sturdier. I leave the peg in the cup and simply lean it towards me to play.
I should say that of course it could be easy to knock the bass out of the stand. I've even had to not use it for an outdoor gig on a windy day. But on a stage with other musicians who aren't idiots it works just fine.
Good luck.

salcott · #5 04-10-2008, 12:50 AM

In a cramped pit, I can't think of too many places I'd rather NOT have my upright than on a stand. I prefer to sit on a stool with a stand for EB and a chair for the acoustic. The bass is invariably by the entrance or some other high traffic area as well. If the show demands both instruments, you have to demand a safe working environment for you and your instruments. I guarantee no woodwind doubler would put up with what we bassists have to deal with sometimes.

Kevin Hsieh · #6 04-10-2008, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salcott

In a cramped pit, I can't think of too many places I'd rather NOT have my upright than on a stand. I prefer to sit on a stool with a stand for EB and a chair for the acoustic. The bass is invariably by the entrance or some other high traffic area as well. If the show demands both instruments, you have to demand a safe working environment for you and your instruments. I guarantee no woodwind doubler would put up with what we bassists have to deal with sometimes.

could you explain the chair for the acoustic thing? I'm having a hard time visualizing it...

salcott · #7 04-10-2008, 12:29 PM

Lean the bass toward the chair and catch the edge of the seat with the "C" bout of the bass.The bass leans on the chair at about a 45 degree angle. It's easier to pick up the bass without getting up from your stool, and the bass is not on the floor where the non-observant can kick it or fall on it.
Here's what I'd do: acoustic on chair to the left of stool; EB stand on right side. Remove EB, place on stand; reach left, pick up acoustic without getting up.

Kevin Hsieh · #8 04-10-2008, 12:30 PM

thanks, steve! I'll do that!

salcott · #9 04-10-2008, 12:37 PM

BTW, This works best with a BG stand that holds the bass from the bottom rather than one where it hangs from the top.

Mark Perna · #10 04-10-2008, 02:28 PM

As someone who has had a bass severely damaged by someone tripping over it while it was lying on it's side, I just won't put a good bass into any kind of situation where someone can damage it. I never leave my bass on it's side outside of it's case unless I am COMPLETELY confident that no one is going to trip over it. I've watched a buddy's bass get knocked off a chair so I'll NEVER do that. I still have mental images of the splintered bridge flying across the room. It was like watching a slow motion car accident. I'm nervous about using a bass stand at home much less on a gig. Standing the bass into a corner can be a fairly safe maneuver and one that I've done in the past. I still want to be in front of the bass though.

The closest I've come to doubling in recent memory was last Saturday night when I played EB for a one set show and then drove across town and played upright for a 2 set show. The upright stayed in the car during the first gig (that was my doubling solution).

Quite frankly, I probably wouldn't take a gig where I had to double. Although I have a lot of fun when I play it, I gig on EB extremely infrequently (3 times in the last five or so years). If I HAD to double and I had serious space limitations, I wouldn't bring a good upright. If I had the potential for a great number of gigs where the bass would be in peril, I'd probably pick up a cheap plywood for those gigs. It's not a bad idea to have a beater bass anyway. Then you can use a stand, stick it on a chair or whatever without much consequence. If something happens to it, you just get another one.

mark

Wilbyman · #11 04-10-2008, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calivox

Quite frankly, I probably wouldn't take a gig where I had to double. Although I have a lot of fun when I play it, I gig on EB extremely infrequently (3 times in the last five or so years). If I HAD to double and I had serious space limitations, I wouldn't bring a good upright. If I had the potential for a great number of gigs where the bass would be in peril, I'd probably pick up a cheap plywood for those gigs. It's not a bad idea to have a beater bass anyway. Then you can use a stand, stick it on a chair or whatever without much consequence. If something happens to it, you just get another one.

mark

+1, to doubling, I think it's just a big PITA though I do it on occasion.

+2 as to the beater idea...in general...I got this nice Kohr plywood and have been dragging it everywhere. It sounds and plays great and I don't worry about it at all. I'm starting to become a little weary of being financially and emotionally invested in musical instruments...

Will

David Kaczorowski · #12 04-10-2008, 02:41 PM

I hate doubling and avoid it as much as possible. Besides, if I'm playing two instruments I want to be paid like it. The wind instruments usually are.

Kevin Hsieh · #13 04-10-2008, 02:44 PM

Does anyone have an idea what George Farmer does on his gig for Spring Awakening? I know he plays UB and slab throughout the show...

i guess it's a smaller band and they're in the back of the stage so he can get away with more space... hmmm. Last time i was there the bass was on its side.

adbass · #14 04-10-2008, 03:02 PM

Haven't doubled in ages . . . but bass stands and chairs both scare me. Corners, as uncletoad suggested, are my best friend. Bridge always facing in, and thus out of harms way. I used to prop my amp up on a milk crate, making it high enough to prop the bass against it as was previously described with a chair.

I don't have a problem laying the bass down if I'm standing right next to it. I wouldn't leave it unattended like that though. I used to bully the percussionists into giving me the space I needed to lay it down. Heck, I used to bully the percussionists . . . period. Maybe you could get some of those little violinists and violists to squish up together. I imagine it would be entertaining to watch as they try to avoid being poked in the eyes by each others' bows.

I think I see a bass stand in your future.

salcott · #15 04-10-2008, 03:33 PM

I absolutely agree; corners are the best. Hard to find in most pits, though. These days, if someone wants both basses on any job, I tell them it's double what the pay would be for one or the other. Then, if they go for it, I'm properly compensated and if they don't they can choose which one they want or get someone else.

Kam · #16 04-10-2008, 10:53 PM

The first and last time I doubled in a pit, I had a pretty slick setup that I would never do again, but its fun to talk about. I used my eminence electric upright (the only upright I had at the time), and had it on the stand that Gary sells with them, which holds the bass by the shoulders, not the neck, allowing you to sort of play the bass while its on the stand. I kept my electric strapped on the entire time, flipping it back (tenacious D style) when I played upright. The only thing I was really missing was an A/B box or mixer to switch the signals; I just gave each bass its own cable and switched them at the amp input. It was kind of fun, but I wouldn't do it with a real bass, and its also fatiguing to play upright with an electric strapped around your left shoulder..

Gambaholic · #17 04-11-2008, 12:45 AM

Is this the kind of stand ur looking for? I just bought this on eBay. Its called a Redi Rest stand. I posted a question about it in the Setup forum. Ken and others there think its not such a hot idea as a "stand" but I think a doubling gig is where it would make the most sense.

Uncletoad · #18 04-11-2008, 06:40 AM

Ripping the bottom out of your bass doesn't make any kind of sense weather your sitting in a pit or your living room.

I'm sure it's fine until you let go of it. The full weight of your bass tilted back like that will most likely rip out the end block.

That makes it a pretty expensive stand.

Wilbyman · #19 04-11-2008, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncletoad

Ripping the bottom out of your bass doesn't make any kind of sense weather your sitting in a pit or your living room.

I'm sure it's fine until you let go of it. The full weight of your bass tilted back like that will most likely rip out the end block.

That makes it a pretty expensive stand.

+1, that looks really scary!!!

Will

Febs · #20 04-11-2008, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Kaczorowski

I hate doubling and avoid it as much as possible. Besides, if I'm playing two instruments I want to be paid like it. The wind instruments usually are.

If anyone is getting paid a doubling fee, then the bassist certainly should for doubling as well. But I haven't seen many doubling fees for any instruments in recent years. Certainly not at the theater where I do most of my work. (You've played there, Dave!

)

When I was doubling for Miss Saigon recently, I set up with my back against the wall of the pit. I had my electric on a stand to my right. When I needed to play electric, I had just enough room to turn the upright 90 degrees from playing position and lean the upper bout against the wall of the pit. It was fairly stable there. There is definitely something to be said for having an inexpensive plywood bass in these situations.